<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" 	> <channel><title>Comments on: Tibet Update (2)</title> <atom:link href="http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/</link> <description>Watching China Politics from Cyberspace</description> <lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:57:13 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: Thomas Canada / Cedar City, Utah</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-6264</link> <dc:creator>Thomas Canada / Cedar City, Utah</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:38:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-6264</guid> <description>Saturday, January 17, 2009 The Dalai Lama&#039;s Power Trip Sometimes in the midst of the detailed polemical discussion on the Internet of whether or not Dorje Shugden is a Buddha or a spirit, the fact that Shugden and non-Shugden practitioners lived together harmoniously and in mutual respect until the 1970s gets forgotten. These heated discussions are only taking place because the Dalai Lama publicly demoted Dorje Shugden, a Protector Buddha loved by his own teachers and thousands of other people. On the basis of his own high status as the unquestioned head of Tibetans and the most famous Buddhist in the world, the Dalai Lama&#039;s words have had the power to destroy the reputation of this Buddhist Deity and the great, revered masters who relied upon him.These cruel, intolerant words are what have caused the severe schismatic problems now being faced by the Tibetan exile community and the bad reputation of previously respected Shugden practitioners around the world.The words below are not those of a humble man, but of a man who knows full well the power he wields over his people.The reasons he gives are based mainly on the provocative claim that Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit and thus a danger to the Dalai Lama’s life and health, a shibboleth that has never been backed up by any reasoning or evidence. When his words to the Tibetan people are examined, they show a depth of superstition quite out of keeping with the rational teachings of Lord Buddha.To form a political decision and destroy religious freedom based on these reasons seems preposterous, and the resulting persecution is bewildering, a Buddhist witch hunt.From the address delivered by the Dalai Lama at the preparatory session of Tamdrin Yangsang and Sangdrub empowerments, March 21 1996&quot;Since it happens according to government oracles that Dholgyal (Shugden) relates to Chinese Buddhist deities, we actually mentioned him by name in our exorcism based on Tamdrin at that time. Though these exorcisms cannot be relied upon, I have had strange dreams since then. Therefore I do not feel it will be comfortable for me to have worshippers of Shugden here. If acrimony between deities results in disharmony between humans, it will be spiritual ruination.&quot;The Dalai Lama goes on to explain:&quot;This will affect the life span of the spiritual master as well&quot;.He then points out and praises those former practitioners of Dorje Shugden, including &quot;abbots and spiritual masters&quot;, who have given up and &quot;become pure&quot;.He explains how he knows that Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit based on locals&#039; dreams:&quot;Others have reported of a bearded monk strangling them: this is very clear indication that Shugden is a Chinese spirit, far from being a deity.&quot;To those who might not have given up the practice, he asks them to publicly make themselves known by standing up and leaving, rendering them pariahs with the words:&quot;Not only will it not benefit yourself but in the worst case may even become the cause of shortening the life of the Dalai Lama. If you wish the speedy death of the Dalai Lama, then I have no objection.&quot;He explains that he has reached these conclusions through divination (throwing a dough ball):&quot;All final decisions have been concluded only through divination. This address too is a result of a divination this morning.&quot;He ends with a threat, setting the scene for his followers to then take up the slander and persecution with impunity, which they have done:&quot;If you private monks and spiritual masters in the monastic colleges continue making excuses and continue worshipping thus, you shall have a day of regret... it will not be good if we have to knock on your doors.&quot;For more of the Dalai Lama’s own words, see in the Dalai Lama&#039;s words. Labels: China, Dalai Lama, dholgyal, Dorje Shugden, Dorje Shugden Article, spirit worship, witchhunt 10 comments: Thom said... you shall have a day of regret... it will not be good if we have to knock on your doors.&quot;I am reminded of the 1999 Kalachakra Cereomony the Dl hastily put together once his nephew had reported that I had just finished the first monastery dedicated to Shri Dorje Shugden in Bloomington, Indiana/USA. He and his henchmen showed up next door to my house one day in August and made life a living hell for the next 12 days as the limos drove up and down my little lane and 12,000 of his cult descended in the remote rolling hills of Southern Indiana. I remember reading the hypocrisy daily as his propoganda machine hit every front page of the state with declaration that all people are welcome to the Kalachakra. Except for me and 12 Shugden monks living in the monastery. It was apparent from the begining as he stepped off the plane in Indianapolis into a press conference and began railing about Dorje Shugden to 50 Press people, who had no clue whatsoever what he was talking about. I remember the nightly cat calls from his security people that yelled threats from the night. While they smashed up my car windows and scrapped paint on the cars. Always at night. I sent my family away for the duration of his unwelcomed visit to my hometown. I remember his words that he was not coming to Bloomington to dedicate the Kalachakra. He was going to Bloomington to destroy the Dorje Shugden Moastery that Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang had blessed and dedicated. The monastery thrives and has grown leaps and bounds across the adjacent states with other center attended by now thousands of people of all ages. The Cultural Center land I gave in 1979 has turned into a land that is so full of impurities. It will take years to straighten out. The Norbu stole millons of dollars from the proceeds of the Kalachkra and are banned from even entering the grounds. Tagsters is dead and a lama from a Chinese Camp with Bob Thurman now control the Tibetan Cultural Center. On one side of town is the TCC and the other is Dorje Shugden Monastery. The Dalia has turned to the dark side, plain and simple. He harms others, as he harmed me and my family with death threats and black magic that helped drive us from our home due to the complications of so much evilness directed our way bowled us over for awhile. But no more and no way. He will fail and the New Delhi Courts will point the way for his downfall and his nature to be revealed. Imagine the Chinese now have a day to celebrate Dl&#039;s flight or abandonment of his own people. It called Serf Liberation Day. Sounds corny! But it is right on as far as the sufferage of the Tibetan People was coming to an end. Just the same as the American Blacks were liberated by a Yankee President Lincoln. Now over 140 years later, we have Barack Obama about to ascend to this high ofice. Let the Tibetans go home to China and work for their desire and continue as a People living in closer proximity to the developing world. No longer as serfs and slaves. The aristocrats can go where they like and the rest can head for Alaska and start again. My ancestors came to America as Cavaliers and became Pioneers making the country we have today. It&#039;s the way to keep your courage and strenght, Instead of becoming a welfare minority dying on a cliff side in northern India. The Dalia would be better to go on ahead and not humiliate himself or us anymore than he has already with his charades and deceits. He is only hot on this, because he killed Dragpa Gyaltshen and he is afraid his leagacy is dead once people know his true history. That&#039;s it! He is a lying murderer.In the end he will recant and plead for mercy and understanding for his abuses of power and tainting the Words Of Buddha for his own personal gain.January 17, 2009 10:36 PM Thom said... &quot;No matter what the outcome of the court case, in a country where millions of idols are worshipped, attempting to ban the Deity is an uphill battle. One in which many Buddhist monks have lost their faith in the spirit of the Dalai Lama.&quot;January 18, 2009 12:08 AM Lineageholder said... hey Thom, that&#039;s pretty heavy story about your persecution by the Dalai Lama&#039;s people! I&#039;m glad to hear that the Dorje Shugden monastery is doing well.January 18, 2009 12:38 PM Thom said... Power Tripping Lama Steps in Kaka The Dalai Lama had finally sent a response through his advocate to the High Court of New Delhi,India,on the 19th december,2008.This was precisely 9 and a half month later, since he had received a Notice from the Court-questioning his actions behind the Ban and asking him to provide a response.His response has been inconclusive and irresponsible ! To begin with, it is Samdong Rimpoche, the supposed Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government in Exile,who has incidentally,responded on the behalf of the Tibetan leader.The God King on the other hand has prefferably stayed aloof,apparently to demonstrate his sanctimonous position,which is probably even beyond diplomatic immunity!The response in itself is a ridiculous compilation of excessive lying and denials.It claims the court as having no legal jurisdiction in matters of religion-the ban being a religious directives of the Tibetan leader-who has a mandate to guide the Tibetan people in the religious and the political sphere.On the other hand as stated,there is a vehement denial to the fact that the Dalai Lama had even ever placed a ban,nor even the refferendum. There has been no discrimination,no abuse of human rights or religious freedom.Nobody has been discriminated with jobs have not been denied neither students expelled from schools!The 15 or so monks who were denied entry to the settlement,were rejected due to the ban placed by monasteries themselves,on admitting Shugden adherents,and not by the Dalai Lama-so says Samdong Rimpoche.The Prime Minister,would rather engage in mud-slinging,as he wants the court and the world,to take note of the unholy laison,of Kundeling and Lama Gangchen rimpoche with that of the Communist Chinese government.It is the to the minister the misdeeds and animosity of the duo, that such vicious attacks have been made to the holy person of the Dalai Lama.To prove the immaculate antecedents of the Dalai Lama,almost all of the later&#039;s ministries have attested letters to the effect.There even seems to be a letter from an obsecure Indian minister stating the same and the National Human Rights Commision of New Delhi(NHRC) claiming to the effect that no objections had been raised against the Dalai Lama.A so-called letter from an press unioun,calling itself UBO,alleged to be in the Switzerland,cliams,that the Swiss TV Channel&#039;10 vor 10&#039;,was one-sided and baised in it&#039;s interpretation of the on-going deity controversy,thus giving the Dalai lama a clean chit.These in substance,are clever ploys and face saving tactics on the part of the Dalai Lama and his Government.The Tibetan team have even claimed,that under the leadership of the Dalai Lama there is harmony and good-will amongst all the Tibetan traditions,wherever Tibetans abide within and outside Tibet!And this,Samdong claims as a &#039;never happened before&#039;in the history of Tibet. It&#039;s time to put these unspeakables behind bars !January 18, 2009 3:01 PM Lineageholder said... Thom, where did you get your information about the Dalai Lama&#039;s response from? Is there a weblink?January 18, 2009 4:20 PM Thom said... Our Warrior from Shambala, Kunden Ling Rinpoche is the source.January 18, 2009 4:51 PM tenzin jangchup said... you people are the cause of the destruction of the dharma. as if this degenerate age wasn&#039;t enough, you want to not only engage in malevolent spirit-worship, but are paid by the chinese to do so and try to stir up sectarian resentment to serve your own ends. you commit one of the five heinous deeds, causing a schism in the religious community, as well as breaking a bodhisattva vow (by eschewing genuine teachings and expounding made-up ones), and will certainly suffer for eons in hell.January 18, 2009 6:14 PM Thom said... My friend Tenzin, awaken from your deluded slumber and smell the Roses! You no longer need to hide bhind your former slave master, Tenzin Gyatso Norbu. Your enslavement is only in your mind. Simply walk out of yor cell and join the Freedom Loving People Of the World. Old World Medievalist are a thing of the past. I will seek financial aid from our allies the Chinese and our Muslim friends from Al-Jazzera. Thanks for the suggestion. Your TGIE lies will reveal you and your Master for the deceits you have perpeuated upon the innocences of the world. It all a question of Justice and law. You and yours have broken the law and will suffer the punishment that the Courts Of New Delhi hand out to you. At the very least, the world will know of your crimes and it is a matter of Public Record. You might try to actually try telling the truth and present some logic to your Hate Crimes. If you can muster something besides &#039;dough balls&#039;for the Dalia&#039;s defense. Samdung and his &#039;dough ball&#039; provide conclusive evidence of that you and yours have gone completely insane and beyond therapy. I will pray for you as I pray for Tagster Norbu, who told me personally he would be reincarnated in Tiajuania,Mexico as a burro. So help me, his words to me to find him for all of his misdeeds. Recant your blasphemy and tell the truth. Tenzin said... Tenzin Jangchub,It is because of views like the ones you express here that we have to bring this situation to light and correct such misapprehensions. We are not spirit worshippers, we are not sectarian and we are not Chinese agents. Our Dharma is the pure teachings of Buddha Shakyamuni and Je Tsongkhapa.You have bought into the Dalai Lama&#039;s and Tibetan government propaganda hook, line and sinker. As a result of your and others&#039; misguided understanding arising from the Dalai Lama&#039;s words, many Tibetans are suffering slander and persecution, and there is indeed a schism in the previously harmonious Dharma community.It is indeed degenerate times, when pure Dharma is being destroyed by a supposed champion of Buddhism, and Buddhists are denied by that same person of their rights to practice Buddhism! His compassionate actions are certainly not in accordance with the Bodhisattva vows, which are the nature of love and compassion. Challenge to Dalia,Samdung,TGIE,TYCIf you have any confidence with the defense of your Hate Crimes and violating the Indian Constitution and your own Tibetan Constitution? I challenge you to have the claims brought before an officially designated International Debate Committee. One that will act as a mediator to decide the validity of the claims made against the Dalia lama and Samdung, who represents the TGIE. A PUBLIC DEBATE for all to witness and decide for themselves the truth behind the charges brought before the New Delhi Court against you.A time honored method to resolve differences and a democratic process to unveil the truth of our cause against you and the Medievalist World you represent.I know you read this forum and I know you are afraid to confront your long held fear. That you, Tenzin Gyatso Norbu murdered Dragpa Gyaltshen. That you ordered the murder of my Teacher, Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche. I know that my Master Domo Geshe Rinpoche requested Dagom Rinpoche to build a monastery dedicated by HH Kyabje Choktrul Trijang Dorje Chang Rinpoche, under the direction of Gonsar Tulku, Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche and attended by Zong Rinpoche. I know you came to Bloomington to destroy your Lineage Masters Dedication of the New Monastery. I know that the dough balls you speak, told you of your own demise and ruin by your previous negative actions. Which you have only compounded by your negative activities that consume your life force by the fear you carry of being exposed for the Murdering liar that you have proven yourself to be. Recant your lies and plead for mercy and understanding for all that you have undertaken to destoy the pure lineage of the Masters. Your time is near and the Protector draws you near to your day of reckoning.Set down from your throne and leave your body alone. Somebody must change. Your days of fear are nearly done.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saturday, January 17, 2009<br /> The Dalai Lama&#8217;s Power Trip<br /> Sometimes in the midst of the detailed polemical discussion on the Internet of whether or not Dorje Shugden is a Buddha or a spirit, the fact that Shugden and non-Shugden practitioners lived together harmoniously and in mutual respect until the 1970s gets forgotten. These heated discussions are only taking place because the Dalai Lama publicly demoted Dorje Shugden, a Protector Buddha loved by his own teachers and thousands of other people. On the basis of his own high status as the unquestioned head of Tibetans and the most famous Buddhist in the world, the Dalai Lama&#8217;s words have had the power to destroy the reputation of this Buddhist Deity and the great, revered masters who relied upon him.</p><p>These cruel, intolerant words are what have caused the severe schismatic problems now being faced by the Tibetan exile community and the bad reputation of previously respected Shugden practitioners around the world.</p><p>The words below are not those of a humble man, but of a man who knows full well the power he wields over his people.</p><p>The reasons he gives are based mainly on the provocative claim that Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit and thus a danger to the Dalai Lama’s life and health, a shibboleth that has never been backed up by any reasoning or evidence. When his words to the Tibetan people are examined, they show a depth of superstition quite out of keeping with the rational teachings of Lord Buddha.</p><p>To form a political decision and destroy religious freedom based on these reasons seems preposterous, and the resulting persecution is bewildering, a Buddhist witch hunt.</p><p>From the address delivered by the Dalai Lama at the preparatory session of Tamdrin Yangsang and Sangdrub empowerments, March 21 1996</p><p>&#8220;Since it happens according to government oracles that Dholgyal (Shugden) relates to Chinese Buddhist deities, we actually mentioned him by name in our exorcism based on Tamdrin at that time. Though these exorcisms cannot be relied upon, I have had strange dreams since then. Therefore I do not feel it will be comfortable for me to have worshippers of Shugden here. If acrimony between deities results in disharmony between humans, it will be spiritual ruination.&#8221;</p><p>The Dalai Lama goes on to explain:</p><p>&#8220;This will affect the life span of the spiritual master as well&#8221;.</p><p>He then points out and praises those former practitioners of Dorje Shugden, including &#8220;abbots and spiritual masters&#8221;, who have given up and &#8220;become pure&#8221;.</p><p>He explains how he knows that Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit based on locals&#8217; dreams:</p><p>&#8220;Others have reported of a bearded monk strangling them: this is very clear indication that Shugden is a Chinese spirit, far from being a deity.&#8221;</p><p>To those who might not have given up the practice, he asks them to publicly make themselves known by standing up and leaving, rendering them pariahs with the words:</p><p>&#8220;Not only will it not benefit yourself but in the worst case may even become the cause of shortening the life of the Dalai Lama. If you wish the speedy death of the Dalai Lama, then I have no objection.&#8221;</p><p>He explains that he has reached these conclusions through divination (throwing a dough ball):</p><p>&#8220;All final decisions have been concluded only through divination. This address too is a result of a divination this morning.&#8221;</p><p>He ends with a threat, setting the scene for his followers to then take up the slander and persecution with impunity, which they have done:</p><p>&#8220;If you private monks and spiritual masters in the monastic colleges continue making excuses and continue worshipping thus, you shall have a day of regret&#8230; it will not be good if we have to knock on your doors.&#8221;</p><p>For more of the Dalai Lama’s own words, see in the Dalai Lama&#8217;s words.</p><p>Labels: China, Dalai Lama, dholgyal, Dorje Shugden, Dorje Shugden Article, spirit worship, witchhunt<br /> 10 comments:<br /> Thom said&#8230;<br /> you shall have a day of regret&#8230; it will not be good if we have to knock on your doors.&#8221;</p><p>I am reminded of the 1999 Kalachakra Cereomony the Dl hastily put together once his nephew had reported that I had just finished the first monastery dedicated to Shri Dorje Shugden in Bloomington, Indiana/USA.<br /> He and his henchmen showed up next door to my house one day in August and made life a living hell for the next 12 days as the limos drove up and down my little lane and 12,000 of his cult descended in the remote rolling hills of Southern Indiana.<br /> I remember reading the hypocrisy daily as his propoganda machine hit every front page of the state with declaration that all people are welcome to the Kalachakra. Except for me and 12 Shugden monks living in the monastery.<br /> It was apparent from the begining as he stepped off the plane in Indianapolis into a press conference and began railing about Dorje Shugden to 50 Press people, who had no clue whatsoever what he was talking about.<br /> I remember the nightly cat calls from his security people that yelled threats from the night. While they smashed up my car windows and scrapped paint on the cars. Always at night. I sent my family away for the duration of his unwelcomed visit to my hometown.<br /> I remember his words that he was not coming to Bloomington to dedicate the Kalachakra. He was going to Bloomington to destroy the Dorje Shugden Moastery that Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang had blessed and dedicated.<br /> The monastery thrives and has grown leaps and bounds across the adjacent states with other center attended by now thousands of people of all ages.<br /> The Cultural Center land I gave in 1979 has turned into a land that is so full of impurities. It will take years to straighten out. The Norbu stole millons of dollars from the proceeds of the Kalachkra and are banned from even entering the grounds. Tagsters is dead and a lama from a Chinese Camp with Bob Thurman now control the Tibetan Cultural Center. On one side of town is the TCC and the other is Dorje Shugden Monastery.<br /> The Dalia has turned to the dark side, plain and simple. He harms others, as he harmed me and my family with death threats and black magic that helped drive us from our home due to the complications of so much evilness directed our way bowled us over for awhile. But no more and no way. He will fail and the New Delhi Courts will point the way for his downfall and his nature to be revealed.<br /> Imagine the Chinese now have a day to celebrate Dl&#8217;s flight or abandonment of his own people.<br /> It called Serf Liberation Day. Sounds corny! But it is right on as far as the sufferage of the Tibetan People was coming to an end. Just the same as the American Blacks were liberated by a Yankee President Lincoln. Now over 140 years later, we have Barack Obama about to ascend to this high ofice.<br /> Let the Tibetans go home to China and work for their desire and continue as a People living in closer proximity to the developing world. No longer as serfs and slaves. The aristocrats can go where they like and the rest can head for Alaska and start again. My ancestors came to America as Cavaliers and became Pioneers making the country we have today. It&#8217;s the way to keep your courage and strenght, Instead of becoming a welfare minority dying on a cliff side in northern India.<br /> The Dalia would be better to go on ahead and not humiliate himself or us anymore than he has already with his charades and deceits.<br /> He is only hot on this, because he killed Dragpa Gyaltshen and he is afraid his leagacy is dead once people know his true history.<br /> That&#8217;s it! He is a lying murderer.</p><p>In the end he will recant and plead for mercy and understanding for his abuses of power and tainting the Words Of Buddha for his own personal gain.</p><p>January 17, 2009 10:36 PM<br /> Thom said&#8230;<br /> &#8220;No matter what the outcome of the court case, in a country where millions of idols are worshipped, attempting to ban the Deity is an uphill battle.<br /> One in which many Buddhist monks have lost their faith in the spirit of the Dalai Lama.&#8221;</p><p>January 18, 2009 12:08 AM<br /> Lineageholder said&#8230;<br /> hey Thom, that&#8217;s pretty heavy story about your persecution by the Dalai Lama&#8217;s people! I&#8217;m glad to hear that the Dorje Shugden monastery is doing well.</p><p>January 18, 2009 12:38 PM<br /> Thom said&#8230;<br /> Power Tripping Lama Steps in Kaka<br /> The Dalai Lama had finally sent a response through his advocate to the High Court of New Delhi,India,on the 19th december,2008.This was precisely 9 and a half month later, since he had received a Notice from the Court-questioning his actions behind the Ban and asking him to provide a response.His response has been inconclusive and irresponsible ! To begin with, it is Samdong Rimpoche, the supposed Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government in Exile,who has incidentally,responded on the behalf of the Tibetan leader.The God King on the other hand has prefferably stayed aloof,apparently to demonstrate his sanctimonous position,which is probably even beyond diplomatic immunity!The response in itself is a ridiculous compilation of excessive lying and denials.It claims the court as having no legal jurisdiction in matters of religion-the ban being a religious directives of the Tibetan leader-who has a mandate to guide the Tibetan people in the religious and the<br /> political sphere.</p><p>On the other hand as stated,there is a vehement denial to the fact that the Dalai Lama had even ever placed a ban,nor even the refferendum. There has been no discrimination,no abuse of human rights or religious freedom.Nobody has been discriminated with jobs have not been denied neither students expelled from schools!The 15 or so monks who were denied entry to the settlement,were rejected due to the ban placed by monasteries themselves,on admitting Shugden adherents,and not by the Dalai Lama-so says Samdong Rimpoche.The Prime Minister,would rather engage in mud-slinging,as he wants the court and the world,to take note of the unholy laison,of Kundeling and Lama Gangchen rimpoche with that of the Communist Chinese government.It is the to the minister the misdeeds and animosity of the duo, that such vicious attacks have been made to the holy person of the Dalai Lama.To prove the immaculate antecedents of the Dalai Lama,almost all of the later&#8217;s ministries<br /> have attested letters to the effect.There even seems to be a letter from an obsecure Indian minister stating the same and the National Human Rights Commision of New Delhi(NHRC) claiming to the effect that no objections had been raised against the Dalai Lama.A so-called letter from an press unioun,calling itself UBO,alleged to be in the Switzerland,cliams,that the Swiss TV Channel&#8217;10 vor 10&#8242;,was one-sided and baised in it&#8217;s interpretation of the on-going deity controversy,thus giving the Dalai lama a clean chit.</p><p>These in substance,are clever ploys and face saving tactics on the part of the Dalai Lama and his Government.The Tibetan team have even claimed,that under the leadership of the Dalai Lama there is harmony and good-will amongst all the Tibetan traditions,wherever Tibetans abide within and outside Tibet!And this,Samdong claims as a &#8216;never happened before&#8217;in the history of Tibet.<br /> It&#8217;s time to put these unspeakables behind bars !</p><p>January 18, 2009 3:01 PM<br /> Lineageholder said&#8230;<br /> Thom, where did you get your information about the Dalai Lama&#8217;s response from? Is there a weblink?</p><p>January 18, 2009 4:20 PM<br /> Thom said&#8230;<br /> Our Warrior from Shambala, Kunden Ling Rinpoche is the source.</p><p>January 18, 2009 4:51 PM<br /> tenzin jangchup said&#8230;<br /> you people are the cause of the destruction of the dharma. as if this degenerate age wasn&#8217;t enough, you want to not only engage in malevolent spirit-worship, but are paid by the chinese to do so and try to stir up sectarian resentment to serve your own ends. you commit one of the five heinous deeds, causing a schism in the religious community, as well as breaking a bodhisattva vow (by eschewing genuine teachings and expounding made-up ones), and will certainly suffer for eons in hell.</p><p>January 18, 2009 6:14 PM<br /> Thom said&#8230;<br /> My friend Tenzin, awaken from your deluded slumber and smell the Roses! You no longer need to hide bhind your former slave master, Tenzin Gyatso Norbu.<br /> Your enslavement is only in your mind. Simply walk out of yor cell and join the Freedom Loving People Of the World.<br /> Old World Medievalist are a thing of the past. I will seek financial aid from our allies the Chinese and our Muslim friends from Al-Jazzera.<br /> Thanks for the suggestion. Your TGIE lies will reveal you and your Master for the deceits you have perpeuated upon the innocences of the world.<br /> It all a question of Justice and law. You and yours have broken the law and will suffer the punishment that the Courts Of New Delhi hand out to you. At the very least, the world will know of your crimes and it is a matter of Public Record.<br /> You might try to actually try telling the truth and present some logic to your Hate Crimes. If you can muster something besides &#8216;dough balls&#8217;for the Dalia&#8217;s defense.<br /> Samdung and his &#8216;dough ball&#8217; provide conclusive evidence of that you and yours have gone completely insane and beyond therapy.<br /> I will pray for you as I pray for Tagster Norbu, who told me personally he would be reincarnated in Tiajuania,Mexico as a burro. So help me, his words to me to find him for all of his misdeeds.<br /> Recant your blasphemy and tell the truth.</p><p>Tenzin said&#8230;<br /> Tenzin Jangchub,</p><p>It is because of views like the ones you express here that we have to bring this situation to light and correct such misapprehensions. We are not spirit worshippers, we are not sectarian and we are not Chinese agents. Our Dharma is the pure teachings of Buddha Shakyamuni and Je Tsongkhapa.</p><p>You have bought into the Dalai Lama&#8217;s and Tibetan government propaganda hook, line and sinker. As a result of your and others&#8217; misguided understanding arising from the Dalai Lama&#8217;s words, many Tibetans are suffering slander and persecution, and there is indeed a schism in the previously harmonious Dharma community.</p><p>It is indeed degenerate times, when pure Dharma is being destroyed by a supposed champion of Buddhism, and Buddhists are denied by that same person of their rights to practice Buddhism! His compassionate actions are certainly not in accordance with the Bodhisattva vows, which are the nature of love and compassion.</p><p>Challenge to Dalia,Samdung,TGIE,TYC</p><p>If you have any confidence with the defense of your Hate Crimes and violating the Indian Constitution and your own Tibetan Constitution?<br /> I challenge you to have the claims brought before an officially designated International Debate Committee.<br /> One that will act as a mediator to decide the validity of the claims made against the Dalia lama and Samdung, who represents the TGIE.<br /> A PUBLIC DEBATE for all to witness and decide for themselves the truth behind the charges brought before the New Delhi Court against you.</p><p>A time honored method to resolve differences and a democratic process to unveil the truth of our cause against you and the Medievalist World you represent.</p><p>I know you read this forum and I know you are afraid to confront your long held fear.<br /> That you, Tenzin Gyatso Norbu murdered Dragpa Gyaltshen.<br /> That you ordered the murder of my Teacher, Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche. I know that my Master Domo Geshe Rinpoche requested Dagom Rinpoche to build a monastery dedicated by HH Kyabje Choktrul Trijang Dorje Chang Rinpoche, under the direction of Gonsar Tulku, Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche and attended by Zong Rinpoche. I know you came to Bloomington to destroy your Lineage Masters Dedication of the New Monastery.<br /> I know that the dough balls you speak, told you of your own demise and ruin by your previous negative actions. Which you have only compounded by your negative activities that consume your life force by the fear you carry of being exposed for the Murdering liar that you have proven yourself to be.<br /> Recant your lies and plead for mercy and understanding for all that you have undertaken to destoy the pure lineage of the Masters.<br /> Your time is near and the Protector draws you near to your day of reckoning.</p><p>Set down from your throne and leave your body alone. Somebody must change.<br /> Your days of fear are nearly done.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Thomas Canada / Cedar City, Utah</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-6255</link> <dc:creator>Thomas Canada / Cedar City, Utah</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:52:02 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-6255</guid> <description>The Dalai Lama had finally sent a response through his advocate to the High Court of New Delhi,India,on the 19th december,2008.This was precisely 9 and a half month later, since he had received a Notice from the Court-questioning his actions behind the Ban and asking him to provide a response.His response has been inconclusive and irresponsible ! To begin with, it is Samdong Rimpoche, the supposed Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government in Exile,who has incidentally,responded on the behalf of the Tibetan leader.The God King on the other hand has prefferably stayed aloof,apparently to demonstrate his sanctimonous position,which is probably even beyond diplomatic immunity!The response in itself is a ridiculous compilation of excessive lying and denials.It claims the court as having no legal jurisdiction in matters of religion-the ban being a religious directives of the Tibetan leader-who has a mandate to guide the Tibetan people in the religious and the political sphere.On the other hand as stated,there is a vehement denial to the fact that the Dalai Lama had even ever placed a ban,nor even the refferendum. There has been no discrimination,no abuse of human rights or religious freedom.Nobody has been discriminated with jobs have not been denied neither students expelled from schools!The 15 or so monks who were denied entry to the settlement,were rejected due to the ban placed by monasteries themselves,on admitting Shugden adherents,and not by the Dalai Lama-so says Samdong Rimpoche.The Prime Minister,would rather engage in mud-slinging,as he wants the court and the world,to take note of the unholy laison,of Kundeling and Lama Gangchen rimpoche with that of the Communist Chinese government.It is the to the minister the misdeeds and animosity of the duo, that such vicious attacks have been made to the holy person of the Dalai Lama.To prove the immaculate antecedents of the Dalai Lama,almost all of the later&#039;s ministries have attested letters to the effect.There even seems to be a letter from an obsecure Indian minister stating the same and the National Human Rights Commision of New Delhi(NHRC) claiming to the effect that no objections had been raised against the Dalai Lama.A so-called letter from an press unioun,calling itself UBO,alleged to be in the Switzerland,cliams,that the Swiss TV Channel&#039;10 vor 10&#039;,was one-sided and baised in it&#039;s interpretation of the on-going deity controversy,thus giving the Dalai lama a clean chit.These in substance,are clever ploys and face saving tactics on the part of the Dalai Lama and his Government.The Tibetan team have even claimed,that under the leadership of the Dalai Lama there is harmony and good-will amongst all the Tibetan traditions,wherever Tibetans abide within and outside Tibet!And this,Samdong claims as a &#039;never happened before&#039;in the history of Tibet.I hope to be able to scan the complete document or employ the help of another,lets see.Iwill ofcourse try my best to see that it reaches you.If you have any inputs or valuable suggestions it would be aprreciated.We are supposed to formulate a reply</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dalai Lama had finally sent a response through his advocate to the High Court of New Delhi,India,on the 19th december,2008.This was precisely 9 and a half month later, since he had received a Notice from the Court-questioning his actions behind the Ban and asking him to provide a response.His response has been inconclusive and irresponsible ! To begin with, it is Samdong Rimpoche, the supposed Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government in Exile,who has incidentally,responded on the behalf of the Tibetan leader.The God King on the other hand has prefferably stayed aloof,apparently to demonstrate his sanctimonous position,which is probably even beyond diplomatic immunity!The response in itself is a ridiculous compilation of excessive lying and denials.It claims the court as having no legal jurisdiction in matters of religion-the ban being a religious directives of the Tibetan leader-who has a mandate to guide the Tibetan people in the religious and the<br /> political sphere.</p><p>On the other hand as stated,there is a vehement denial to the fact that the Dalai Lama had even ever placed a ban,nor even the refferendum. There has been no discrimination,no abuse of human rights or religious freedom.Nobody has been discriminated with jobs have not been denied neither students expelled from schools!The 15 or so monks who were denied entry to the settlement,were rejected due to the ban placed by monasteries themselves,on admitting Shugden adherents,and not by the Dalai Lama-so says Samdong Rimpoche.The Prime Minister,would rather engage in mud-slinging,as he wants the court and the world,to take note of the unholy laison,of Kundeling and Lama Gangchen rimpoche with that of the Communist Chinese government.It is the to the minister the misdeeds and animosity of the duo, that such vicious attacks have been made to the holy person of the Dalai Lama.To prove the immaculate antecedents of the Dalai Lama,almost all of the later&#8217;s ministries<br /> have attested letters to the effect.There even seems to be a letter from an obsecure Indian minister stating the same and the National Human Rights Commision of New Delhi(NHRC) claiming to the effect that no objections had been raised against the Dalai Lama.A so-called letter from an press unioun,calling itself UBO,alleged to be in the Switzerland,cliams,that the Swiss TV Channel&#8217;10 vor 10&#8242;,was one-sided and baised in it&#8217;s interpretation of the on-going deity controversy,thus giving the Dalai lama a clean chit.</p><p>These in substance,are clever ploys and face saving tactics on the part of the Dalai Lama and his Government.The Tibetan team have even claimed,that under the leadership of the Dalai Lama there is harmony and good-will amongst all the Tibetan traditions,wherever Tibetans abide within and outside Tibet!And this,Samdong claims as a &#8216;never happened before&#8217;in the history of Tibet.I hope to be able to scan the complete document or employ the help of another,lets see.Iwill ofcourse try my best to see that it reaches you.If you have any inputs or valuable suggestions it would be aprreciated.We are supposed to formulate a reply</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: B.W,TURNRR</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-6237</link> <dc:creator>B.W,TURNRR</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:29:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-6237</guid> <description>FREE TIBET</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FREE TIBET</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Shadow Tibet : Jamyang Norbu &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Lonliness of the Long Distance Blogger</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1653</link> <dc:creator>Shadow Tibet : Jamyang Norbu &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Lonliness of the Long Distance Blogger</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 19:47:39 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1653</guid> <description>[...] the world about the recent events in Tibet. She has posted four reports titled Tibet Update 1, Tibet Update 2 , Tibet Update 3, Tibet Update 4, and just yesterday, Tibet Update May [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the world about the recent events in Tibet. She has posted four reports titled Tibet Update 1, Tibet Update 2 , Tibet Update 3, Tibet Update 4, and just yesterday, Tibet Update May [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: carl</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1339</link> <dc:creator>carl</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:30:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1339</guid> <description>What is about TibetWell, to truly understand the situation in Tibet, we will have to separate the strategic and the tactical.Reporters, however sometimes misplaced, are doing what they should to expose the human rights abuses in Tibet and in China; for that matter, one can hardly blame them. For example, the shooting of a young nun trying to cross the  border to/from nepal into Tibet is clearly an abuse and I am buffled by why no reporter or good natured citizen in China had  followed up on that with the chinese authorities.Was it established policy to shoot to kill? Has that policy being changed since the abuse being exposed? Was it just because of the sholdier who was trigger happy? Who is responsible for the policy, if it is indeed policy? Or has the soldier being charged if it was not official policy? While, no one likes people to cross their borders at will, e.g., passports and papers, there appears to me no need to open fire especially given this is a tourist area and for the last 20 or more years there had not been armed infiltration in Tibet. It is like if I try to cross the US-canadian border  at will and at non-designated locations. I will surely be in trouble but shot at I will not be. That is the difference between civilized (US/Canada) and the not so ... dare I say barbarous (China). Exposing such abuses have good value and make a tangible contribution to the debate and the further advancement of the Chinese state.Now back to the real topic. The above, however deplorable, is a tactical situation. The root of the problem is strategic. I do not believe  the Chinese just bend on just trying to be evil. Even the jihadists have their reasons - however misplaced to you and I may think.  As an ancient civilization, the Chinese are not employing repressive means just for the fun of it. It is a tactic to pacify the region such that it does not get in the way of the overall national strategy for stability and development. While human rights abuses should be deplored and addressed, there will always be times to resort to the convenience of abuses to achieve its strategic goal. In fact, seeing in this light, the overall human rights conditions in China has its roots. Until that is the national development is fairly advanced, abuses will continue.The real Tibet problem is about history, geography, strategic needs, religion, and irreconcilable differences between the Tibetan exiles and China (yes, I mean its people and its government). It requires immense wisdom and mutual understanding to come to a civilized settlement.First we lay the context:1) The Tibet exile community is at its heart an independence movement. It operated that way for 20+ years and has been forced  to change its tune to autonomy in the last decade. However, its ideology still is clearly independence, however masked by the Dalai Lama&#039;s statements.2) The fate of the Tibet problem was sealed when the Dalai Lama was installed as both the temporal and spiritual leadership of Tibet by the Chinese emporer.3) The geographical and religious status of Tibet is such that since the Tang there has always been a problem. At one time,  the Tufan empire extended to most of western China.4) Western China has always been a hotbed of ethnicity and conflicts and because of the nomadic nature of peoples, contestation for supremacy has been the rule rather than the exception.5) The Tibetan population extends far and wide in western China and since ancient times, the nomads go to where the grass is green and therefore there has always been an explosive mix of ethnicity.6) Since the Yuan Buddhism has been established in Tibet to such an extend that a large percentage of the population had been  monasterial and that left a huge vacuum for its own defenses and had been a problem for the stability of the whole region.7) Concept of nation state is a new invention to the region only in the last century. Before that, the primary drive for choices was  chaos or stability - that was the realities of the peoples in the region. Modern concepts and aspirations should not be imposed on the people of the day.I take the above as just realities, not truth, and not ideology. These are in fact the gifts of the history to the Chinese, Tibetans, and their leadership, by which I also include his holliness the Dalai Lama. I will leave it to the good reader to dig up the scholarly research, and not so scholarly, to decide for yourself whether these realities are true.Now let us proceed to the analysis of the strategic issues, dilemma, and likely solutions.Since they fled in 1959, the Dalai Lama and his group had based its ideology on independence. Funding and campaigns had been sought from the Americans and the British in the 60 until the 80&#039;s. Armed guerilla war had been conducted with infiltration into Tibet from Nepal. However, because of the special condition of Tibet, no one, not even the US at the height of its support for the exiles could come forward to support them for independence. However, Dalai Lama and his group have managed to persuade themselves that independence is their goal for the reason that is the only way to unite the various factions of the exiles. In 1989, his holliness brought himself to proclaim that China should splinter into 7/8 pieces and he will be back as the temporal and ecclesiastical leader of Tibet,  which he later murmured to be just a big mistake.By the last decade, strategic conditions have dictated that independence is unattainable and hence the subsequent change in tactics whereby offensive for autonomy and human rights abuses became the preferred method. As I pointed out earlier, this is only meaningful from a tactical point of view by gathering sympathy from the western societies (because these human rights abuses are real) and put the chinese on  the spotlight. Nevertheless, the western leadership and the Dalai Lama should be quite clear in their mind that it is not going to lead to a strategic settlement of the issue.At the minimum, the Dalai Lama can be accused of duplicity and &quot;when he speaks to the man he speaks human language, and when he speaks to the devil he speaks the devil&#039;s language&quot; - as the Chinese say.In the last 30 years, there had been many negotiations between the Dalai Lama and the Chinese government. Real opportunities had been presented several times (e.g., death of the Penchan Lama, Pilgrim to the Wuta Mountain Temple - a buddhist shrine,  and selection of the new Penchen Lama) and in all cases Dalai Lama had recoiled from taking those opportunities. I do not  believe he is evil and bend on upstaging the Chinese either. What really happened - only my opinion, and this is for future historians to analyze - is that in the final calculation he was overruled either by himself or my his apparent minions that in all cases they will likely to be viewed as deviating from the independence party line by their followers and that it risks too much to lend credibility to the Chinese that Tibet is not independent. Can he break out of this ideological coffin and initiate real negotiations on autonomy with the Chinese? If this were to happen, then these negotiations will have to happen in secret otherwise the pressure from the exiles will be too great.Viewed from the Chinese side, given the Dalai Lama and his group&#039;s history of violent struggles for independence, there is a long way to go for him to establish its true credendials as an autonomy seeker.Why then not independence for Tibet? After all, do we not uphold self-determination to be one of the cherished civilized principles?Well there are principles and there are realities. Because of the mixture of ethnicity and lack of dominant leadership, Western China had always been a problem. The Chinese could rely on eastern and central China for their livelihood and taxes, etc. However  western China had always been a lunchpad for raids into the settlements on the fertile plains. That wall in China is just a  reminder how much they wanted to just stay in and mind their own business. Under the Yuan (mongol) dynasty it was not a  problem; all lands were under their rule. With its deprived male population, Tibet is not a military threat and the spiritual contributions made it also a valuable tool to provide comforting thoughts to the whole country.Had it continued, we will see a very different China. Perhaps equally successful as a civilization and maybe even dominant in the way that the US is. However, the mongols were incompetent after Kublai Khan and the dynasty collapsed. Before the mongols were driven into exile they also took the empiral seal. So in a  way, the Ming dynasty was illegitimate, which also excercised little if any control in Tibet and because the mongols and Tibet had been completely disunited, it was no bother to the Ming anyway. The MIng had much bigger things on their mind with the high seas and teh re-surgency of the Manchu. Now, enter the Manchu.  The Qing allied with various Mongol tribes and in fact got the empiral seal from the mongols; the Qing had their power in the alliance with the Mongols and Han chinese defectors from the Ming. However, by this time the mongols were a splinter of tribes. They had used Tibet as a base for mischief in western China and of course the Qing courts  cannot tolerate that. Had Tibet been stable it probably would just end up like Korea and the Qing would have minded their own business. But lack of male fighting forces had led to Tibet being used by the outlaw mongol tribes and invaded by Nepal. Further and further  weaknesses had compelled the Qing court to consolidate its grip on Tibet more and more.By the 1900&#039;s, it no longer is a matter of stability and control. This time the Chinese empire was the victim. Tibet was viewed as another case of western imperialistic designs and for strategic reasons, the Brits and Americans were just as eager to please China to keep out the Russians and trade in their priviliges in eastern China; the spoils there far outweigh any inch of snow covered dirt in Tibet as long as, that is, the border with India is stable.So it is the case, the Tibetans did not have a nation state and not recognized as such. The Chinese has claim over a multi-ethnic state including the Tibetans and were recognized widely. Nevertheless, we were in 1900 and the Tibetans lords have heard about it, and something stirred in their hearts, that they can also have their nation state. Wouldn&#039;t that be nice to be rid of  the corrupt and weak Chinese. With the collapse of central power in China accompanying the Manchu dynastic ruin, they had  finally grasp of their own fate, but China was not just going to give up and nobody want them to be masters of their own fate. Curiously, for whatever reason they did not make a formal declaration of independence either, perhaps still have not grasped the concept of nationa statehood fully. In any case, despite its weakness and war-lordism, the  Republic of China certainly was in no mood to see their country to be nipped away piece by piece. Despite lack of real control, it maintained its claims and fought every opportunity of external recognition tooth-to-nail. With past sins in mind, the  Brits and the Americans were just as enthusiastic to prop up the integrity of the multi-ethnic Chinese state.Enough said about the dead.Here we are in 2008. The Dalai Lama with his burden of independence cannot gather enough wisdom and strength to overrule his minions to take a deal on autonomy. In all the opportunities he had been presented, he had upstaged the chinese and opted for pleasing his western backers than to do the right thing for his ethnic brethren to provide a stable livelihood. How can the Chinese trust him now? Just look at the risks and the dilemma they are in.His holiness is not just a religious figure. He has temporal rule over the Tibet TAR area. But ethnic Tibetans are spread over a  wide area in western China, amongst the Mongols, Hui Muslims, Han Chinese. Let&#039;s just imagine what happens in western China if he returns to Lhasa in his current capacity. In the morning prayers, all Tibetans, in the TAR and elsewhere deep in other provinces (and do not forget about a sizeable Buddhist mongol population), will be praying to his picture frames. At noon,  he orders an edict that taxes shall be collected for each 100 yuan earned and sent to the this-and-that monastery. Oh, worse still the town head shall be appointed as this-and-that name. Does this apply to the TAR or does it apply to all of the ethno- Tibetan areas in western China? If it applies to all areas, what about the Muslims, the Han chinese, and scores of other ethnic  groups who live alongside the Tibetans. This is precisely the reason why the 1959 agreement had failed. So as I said the  problem is a mixture of ecclesiastical and temporal issues.Worst to come, with his proven independence streak, what if the Dalai Lama calls for an independent Tibet once he is installed  in the Potala Palace. As I said, the time for independence was gone with the 1911 ambiguity and the great powers rejection of Tibetan lords request for recognition. No Chinese body-politic, communist, socialist, republican, nationalist, reactionary, progressive, liberal, etc. can permit China to be now torn apart. So if the Dalai Lama chooses to play mischief once in Tibet, what would happen? Would the Chinese have to send the troops? The ensuing bloodletting would not be something we want to see. I do not believe the Chinese will want to see it either. A moralistic and practical question would be &quot;do we prefer the inconvenience of human rights abuses here-and-there or the full scale killing if the solution provided further aggravates the problem?&quot;So as I said before autonomy is the only way out. At the same time, some give-and-take has to happen such that not only Tibet TAR but also the ethno-Tibetan regions will need to have substantial autonomy so they do not feel under-privileged  compared to their distant cousins over that lake. So what about the Hui muslims and Hans living alongside. Well, we are talking about full- blown democracy. But I do not think China can afford that right now - that is just reality. That is a different topic and not really related to this. All I will come back to is that old wisdom: &quot;Ruling a giant state is like stir-frying a wok of small fish&quot; (think disintegrated fish paste if stirred too hard) - dated Wendi era (Han Dynasty).So the Dalai Lama, if he truly wishes to care for his ethnic brethren in his life time, will have to take a firm stand against independence to establish his credentials of not playing any mischief once installed in Lhasa. For one reason or another  - all internal to the exile community, my opinion only - he cannot bring himself up to that task. It is too convenient to make TV speeches. Whatever he is saying he has to back it up with action. Further still, given his past he has to act in that direction than what may look to be reasonable. For the Americans, think of it as a Nixon making a deal with Mao - why it could not have been a Kennedy?Nevertheless, autonomy is coming to the Tibet TAR and beyond. That is with or without his holiness. The Chinese leadership, I will still say  they are the best crop of leaders today (if you take your ideology out), is not stupid. If I can, they can recognize a big problem is at their hand and they will have to make policy adjustments. Given the only way out is autonomy, you can expect some form of that will be in place in the next 10 years gradually. The Chinese are full of proverbs and they do follow them. They probably will not care too much about who is in charge in Tibet &quot;as long as he/she catches the mice&quot; - that is a stable Tibet and within China. Before that were to happen, again, they are going to be &quot;feeling the stone at the riverbed to cross the river.&quot;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is about Tibet</p><p>Well, to truly understand the situation in Tibet, we will have to separate the strategic and the tactical.</p><p>Reporters, however sometimes misplaced, are doing what they should to expose the human rights abuses in Tibet and in China; for that matter, one can hardly blame them. For example, the shooting of a young nun trying to cross the  border to/from nepal into Tibet is clearly an abuse and I am buffled by why no reporter or good natured citizen in China had  followed up on that with the chinese authorities.</p><p>Was it established policy to shoot to kill? Has that policy being changed since the abuse being exposed? Was it just because of the sholdier who was trigger happy? Who is responsible for the policy, if it is indeed policy? Or has the soldier being charged if it was not official policy? While, no one likes people to cross their borders at will, e.g., passports and papers, there appears to me no need to open fire especially given this is a tourist area and for the last 20 or more years there had not been armed infiltration in Tibet. It is like if I try to cross the US-canadian border  at will and at non-designated locations. I will surely be in trouble but shot at I will not be. That is the difference between civilized (US/Canada) and the not so &#8230; dare I say barbarous (China). Exposing such abuses have good value and make a tangible contribution to the debate and the further advancement of the Chinese state.</p><p>Now back to the real topic. The above, however deplorable, is a tactical situation. The root of the problem is strategic. I do not believe  the Chinese just bend on just trying to be evil. Even the jihadists have their reasons &#8211; however misplaced to you and I may think.  As an ancient civilization, the Chinese are not employing repressive means just for the fun of it. It is a tactic to pacify the region such that it does not get in the way of the overall national strategy for stability and development. While human rights abuses should be deplored and addressed, there will always be times to resort to the convenience of abuses to achieve its strategic goal. In fact, seeing in this light, the overall human rights conditions in China has its roots. Until that is the national development is fairly advanced, abuses will continue.</p><p>The real Tibet problem is about history, geography, strategic needs, religion, and irreconcilable differences between the Tibetan exiles and China (yes, I mean its people and its government). It requires immense wisdom and mutual understanding to come to a civilized settlement.</p><p>First we lay the context:</p><p>1) The Tibet exile community is at its heart an independence movement. It operated that way for 20+ years and has been forced  to change its tune to autonomy in the last decade. However, its ideology still is clearly independence, however masked by the Dalai Lama&#8217;s statements.</p><p>2) The fate of the Tibet problem was sealed when the Dalai Lama was installed as both the temporal and spiritual leadership of Tibet by the Chinese emporer.</p><p>3) The geographical and religious status of Tibet is such that since the Tang there has always been a problem. At one time,  the Tufan empire extended to most of western China.</p><p>4) Western China has always been a hotbed of ethnicity and conflicts and because of the nomadic nature of peoples, contestation for supremacy has been the rule rather than the exception.</p><p>5) The Tibetan population extends far and wide in western China and since ancient times, the nomads go to where the grass is green and therefore there has always been an explosive mix of ethnicity.</p><p>6) Since the Yuan Buddhism has been established in Tibet to such an extend that a large percentage of the population had been  monasterial and that left a huge vacuum for its own defenses and had been a problem for the stability of the whole region.</p><p>7) Concept of nation state is a new invention to the region only in the last century. Before that, the primary drive for choices was  chaos or stability &#8211; that was the realities of the peoples in the region. Modern concepts and aspirations should not be imposed on the people of the day.</p><p>I take the above as just realities, not truth, and not ideology. These are in fact the gifts of the history to the Chinese, Tibetans, and their leadership, by which I also include his holliness the Dalai Lama. I will leave it to the good reader to dig up the scholarly research, and not so scholarly, to decide for yourself whether these realities are true.</p><p>Now let us proceed to the analysis of the strategic issues, dilemma, and likely solutions.</p><p>Since they fled in 1959, the Dalai Lama and his group had based its ideology on independence. Funding and campaigns had been sought from the Americans and the British in the 60 until the 80&#8242;s. Armed guerilla war had been conducted with infiltration into Tibet from Nepal. However, because of the special condition of Tibet, no one, not even the US at the height of its support for the exiles could come forward to support them for independence. However, Dalai Lama and his group have managed to persuade themselves that independence is their goal for the reason that is the only way to unite the various factions of the exiles. In 1989, his holliness brought himself to proclaim that China should splinter into 7/8 pieces and he will be back as the temporal and ecclesiastical leader of Tibet,  which he later murmured to be just a big mistake.</p><p>By the last decade, strategic conditions have dictated that independence is unattainable and hence the subsequent change in tactics whereby offensive for autonomy and human rights abuses became the preferred method. As I pointed out earlier, this is only meaningful from a tactical point of view by gathering sympathy from the western societies (because these human rights abuses are real) and put the chinese on  the spotlight. Nevertheless, the western leadership and the Dalai Lama should be quite clear in their mind that it is not going to lead to a strategic settlement of the issue.</p><p>At the minimum, the Dalai Lama can be accused of duplicity and &#8220;when he speaks to the man he speaks human language, and when he speaks to the devil he speaks the devil&#8217;s language&#8221; &#8211; as the Chinese say.</p><p>In the last 30 years, there had been many negotiations between the Dalai Lama and the Chinese government. Real opportunities had been presented several times (e.g., death of the Penchan Lama, Pilgrim to the Wuta Mountain Temple &#8211; a buddhist shrine,  and selection of the new Penchen Lama) and in all cases Dalai Lama had recoiled from taking those opportunities. I do not  believe he is evil and bend on upstaging the Chinese either. What really happened &#8211; only my opinion, and this is for future historians to analyze &#8211; is that in the final calculation he was overruled either by himself or my his apparent minions that in all cases they will likely to be viewed as deviating from the independence party line by their followers and that it risks too much to lend credibility to the Chinese that Tibet is not independent. Can he break out of this ideological coffin and initiate real negotiations on autonomy with the Chinese? If this were to happen, then these negotiations will have to happen in secret otherwise the pressure from the exiles will be too great.</p><p>Viewed from the Chinese side, given the Dalai Lama and his group&#8217;s history of violent struggles for independence, there is a long way to go for him to establish its true credendials as an autonomy seeker.</p><p>Why then not independence for Tibet? After all, do we not uphold self-determination to be one of the cherished civilized principles?</p><p>Well there are principles and there are realities. Because of the mixture of ethnicity and lack of dominant leadership, Western China had always been a problem. The Chinese could rely on eastern and central China for their livelihood and taxes, etc. However  western China had always been a lunchpad for raids into the settlements on the fertile plains. That wall in China is just a  reminder how much they wanted to just stay in and mind their own business. Under the Yuan (mongol) dynasty it was not a  problem; all lands were under their rule. With its deprived male population, Tibet is not a military threat and the spiritual contributions made it also a valuable tool to provide comforting thoughts to the whole country.</p><p>Had it continued, we will see a very different China. Perhaps equally successful as a civilization and maybe even dominant in the way that the US is. However, the mongols were incompetent after Kublai Khan and the dynasty collapsed. Before the mongols were driven into exile they also took the empiral seal. So in a  way, the Ming dynasty was illegitimate, which also excercised little if any control in Tibet and because the mongols and Tibet had been completely disunited, it was no bother to the Ming anyway. The MIng had much bigger things on their mind with the high seas and teh re-surgency of the Manchu. Now, enter the Manchu.  The Qing allied with various Mongol tribes and in fact got the empiral seal from the mongols; the Qing had their power in the alliance with the Mongols and Han chinese defectors from the Ming. However, by this time the mongols were a splinter of tribes. They had used Tibet as a base for mischief in western China and of course the Qing courts  cannot tolerate that. Had Tibet been stable it probably would just end up like Korea and the Qing would have minded their own business. But lack of male fighting forces had led to Tibet being used by the outlaw mongol tribes and invaded by Nepal. Further and further  weaknesses had compelled the Qing court to consolidate its grip on Tibet more and more.</p><p>By the 1900&#8242;s, it no longer is a matter of stability and control. This time the Chinese empire was the victim. Tibet was viewed as another case of western imperialistic designs and for strategic reasons, the Brits and Americans were just as eager to please China to keep out the Russians and trade in their priviliges in eastern China; the spoils there far outweigh any inch of snow covered dirt in Tibet as long as, that is, the border with India is stable.</p><p>So it is the case, the Tibetans did not have a nation state and not recognized as such. The Chinese has claim over a multi-ethnic state including the Tibetans and were recognized widely. Nevertheless, we were in 1900 and the Tibetans lords have heard about it, and something stirred in their hearts, that they can also have their nation state. Wouldn&#8217;t that be nice to be rid of  the corrupt and weak Chinese. With the collapse of central power in China accompanying the Manchu dynastic ruin, they had  finally grasp of their own fate, but China was not just going to give up and nobody want them to be masters of their own fate. Curiously, for whatever reason they did not make a formal declaration of independence either, perhaps still have not grasped the concept of nationa statehood fully. In any case, despite its weakness and war-lordism, the  Republic of China certainly was in no mood to see their country to be nipped away piece by piece. Despite lack of real control, it maintained its claims and fought every opportunity of external recognition tooth-to-nail. With past sins in mind, the  Brits and the Americans were just as enthusiastic to prop up the integrity of the multi-ethnic Chinese state.</p><p>Enough said about the dead.</p><p>Here we are in 2008. The Dalai Lama with his burden of independence cannot gather enough wisdom and strength to overrule his minions to take a deal on autonomy. In all the opportunities he had been presented, he had upstaged the chinese and opted for pleasing his western backers than to do the right thing for his ethnic brethren to provide a stable livelihood. How can the Chinese trust him now? Just look at the risks and the dilemma they are in.</p><p>His holiness is not just a religious figure. He has temporal rule over the Tibet TAR area. But ethnic Tibetans are spread over a  wide area in western China, amongst the Mongols, Hui Muslims, Han Chinese. Let&#8217;s just imagine what happens in western China if he returns to Lhasa in his current capacity. In the morning prayers, all Tibetans, in the TAR and elsewhere deep in other provinces (and do not forget about a sizeable Buddhist mongol population), will be praying to his picture frames. At noon,  he orders an edict that taxes shall be collected for each 100 yuan earned and sent to the this-and-that monastery. Oh, worse still the town head shall be appointed as this-and-that name. Does this apply to the TAR or does it apply to all of the ethno- Tibetan areas in western China? If it applies to all areas, what about the Muslims, the Han chinese, and scores of other ethnic  groups who live alongside the Tibetans. This is precisely the reason why the 1959 agreement had failed. So as I said the  problem is a mixture of ecclesiastical and temporal issues.</p><p>Worst to come, with his proven independence streak, what if the Dalai Lama calls for an independent Tibet once he is installed  in the Potala Palace. As I said, the time for independence was gone with the 1911 ambiguity and the great powers rejection of Tibetan lords request for recognition. No Chinese body-politic, communist, socialist, republican, nationalist, reactionary, progressive, liberal, etc. can permit China to be now torn apart. So if the Dalai Lama chooses to play mischief once in Tibet, what would happen? Would the Chinese have to send the troops? The ensuing bloodletting would not be something we want to see. I do not believe the Chinese will want to see it either. A moralistic and practical question would be &#8220;do we prefer the inconvenience of human rights abuses here-and-there or the full scale killing if the solution provided further aggravates the problem?&#8221;</p><p>So as I said before autonomy is the only way out. At the same time, some give-and-take has to happen such that not only Tibet TAR but also the ethno-Tibetan regions will need to have substantial autonomy so they do not feel under-privileged  compared to their distant cousins over that lake. So what about the Hui muslims and Hans living alongside. Well, we are talking about full- blown democracy. But I do not think China can afford that right now &#8211; that is just reality. That is a different topic and not really related to this. All I will come back to is that old wisdom: &#8220;Ruling a giant state is like stir-frying a wok of small fish&#8221; (think disintegrated fish paste if stirred too hard) &#8211; dated Wendi era (Han Dynasty).</p><p>So the Dalai Lama, if he truly wishes to care for his ethnic brethren in his life time, will have to take a firm stand against independence to establish his credentials of not playing any mischief once installed in Lhasa. For one reason or another  &#8211; all internal to the exile community, my opinion only &#8211; he cannot bring himself up to that task. It is too convenient to make TV speeches. Whatever he is saying he has to back it up with action. Further still, given his past he has to act in that direction than what may look to be reasonable. For the Americans, think of it as a Nixon making a deal with Mao &#8211; why it could not have been a Kennedy?</p><p>Nevertheless, autonomy is coming to the Tibet TAR and beyond. That is with or without his holiness. The Chinese leadership, I will still say  they are the best crop of leaders today (if you take your ideology out), is not stupid. If I can, they can recognize a big problem is at their hand and they will have to make policy adjustments. Given the only way out is autonomy, you can expect some form of that will be in place in the next 10 years gradually. The Chinese are full of proverbs and they do follow them. They probably will not care too much about who is in charge in Tibet &#8220;as long as he/she catches the mice&#8221; &#8211; that is a stable Tibet and within China. Before that were to happen, again, they are going to be &#8220;feeling the stone at the riverbed to cross the river.&#8221;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ralf</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1322</link> <dc:creator>Ralf</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 08:47:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1322</guid> <description>I found some Tibet Flag (animated GIF images) for your homepage. http://www.fanshop-online.de/Tibet-Fahnen.php</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found some Tibet Flag (animated GIF images) for your homepage.<br /> <a href="http://www.fanshop-online.de/Tibet-Fahnen.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.fanshop-online.de/Tibet-Fahnen.php</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: tibet news &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;&#8230;möglichst schnell töten&#8230;&#8221;</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1292</link> <dc:creator>tibet news &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;&#8230;möglichst schnell töten&#8230;&#8221;</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:33:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1292</guid> <description>[...] in China. His speech was transmitted to the various working units in Tibet&#8230;&#8221; Quelle: China Digital Times (Auf der Website Chinadigitaltimes.net werden die Eintr&#228;ge aus dem Blog der in Peking lebenden [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in China. His speech was transmitted to the various working units in Tibet&#8230;&#8221; Quelle: China Digital Times (Auf der Website Chinadigitaltimes.net werden die Eintr&#228;ge aus dem Blog der in Peking lebenden [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dr. Motte Blog &#187; Blog Archiv &#187; Botschaft Seiner Heiligkeit des Dalai Lama an alle Tibeter</title><link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1287</link> <dc:creator>Dr. Motte Blog &#187; Blog Archiv &#187; Botschaft Seiner Heiligkeit des Dalai Lama an alle Tibeter</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:04:39 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/#comment-1287</guid> <description>[...] http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/ [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/" rel="nofollow">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/tibet-update-2/</a> [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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