Spain To Hear Tibetan Lawsuit Against Chinese Leaders
From AFP:
Spain’s top criminal court agreed Tuesday to hear a lawsuit from Tibetan rights groups that accuses Chinese leaders of genocide in connection with the unrest that erupted in the region in March.
The suit was filed on July 9 against seven Chinese leaders, including Defence Minister Liang Guanglie, by the Tibet Support Committee and two other Tibetan groups.
It was admitted under the principle of “universal competence” adopted by the Spanish judiciary in 2005 and under which Spanish courts can hear cases of genocide and crimes against humanity wherever they occur and whatever the nationality of the defendant.
Spain’s National Court, which handles crimes against humanity and genocide, said it “accepts the competence of Spanish jurisdiction to investigate the reported events.”
Origin: , AFP
POSTED COMMENTS: 19 Responses
Some of those Chinese leaders have committed crime against humanity, especially those of Tibetans, which are aimed at undermining Tibetan culture and religion. China and its people cannot possibly deny such fact that is recognized by the world as community.
Best Wishes,
Racheal
And China should hear and judge lawsuits to be brought by Basque nationalists who have been fighting for centuries for independence from Spanish ( Castillian ) rule.
We Chinese should bring the perpetrators of the “Bombing of Guernica” by German Nazi bomber planes ( called in by the Spanish Fascist Dictator, Franco) to the International Criminal Court for massacreing the Basque peoples. Even if it is a posthumous judgement, it will do good to the Basque people and humanity in general.
Not to mention the mass graves of Republican ( some socialists and international volunteers)fighters against the fascist forces of the dictator Franco. We shall dig them up for the world to see the brutality of the Spanish Fascists.
During the Second World War, many Spanish were pro-Hitler and were Fascists.
We will also investigate Franco’s use of the Morroccan extremist suicide troops against the Republican resistance fighters against Spanish Fascism.
And we shall rule that Cataluna ( Catalonia : whose capital is Barcelona)should be independent because the Fascist Spanish rulers like Primo De Riveira and Franco committed cultural and physical genocide on the Catalans, even forbidding the use of Catalan language and exacting more revenues from the industrious Catalans ( technologically and commercially more advanced than the Castillians who produced mostly soldiers and a surplus of lawyers and who form the community from where most die-hard fascists spring from) to pay for the poor Castillian regions.
And, above all, the looting and genocides carried out by the Spanish Conquistadores in Latin ( South) America where millions of the native Mayas and Incas were mass slaughtered, burned, enslaved and genocided for their GOLD and Land, for the glory of Spain.
Yeah, your bloodthirsty Spanish history and atrocities will come to light with your judgement of the Tibetan problem.
Not to mention the most barbaric Spanish Inquisition which tortured and burned at stakes any protestant or freethinkers in Europe and South America. And the burning and sacking of protestant Amsterdam in Holland by the extremist Spanish Inquisition bastards.
To this day even my Dutch friends ( some are even Catholics) talk about the Spanish catholic Inquisition as a barbaric hysteria driven by demons, NOT based on the true word of God.
So you reckon you Spaniards are very qualified to judge other people??
Bwahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha
Spain?
Mr Singhdee – I think your opening paragraph begins convincingly, but it goes downhill from there. This is about the recent past and the present, not the distant past.
I largely agree that this is a bad way of dealing with the relationship between China and Tibet. Yes, there are problems. Yes, China often acts ruthlessly against Tibetans. But this is scarcely a specific anti-Tibetan policy. To my knowledge, Tibetans are granted largely the same freedoms the Han are granted, and it is mostly due to the (understandable) Chinese sensitivity to the unity of the country that Tibetans and other minorities striving for autonomy or independence are suppressed.
And while it’s possible that crimes against humanity have been perpetrated in Tibet, they’re hardly lacking elsewhere in China – and it remains to be said that these have improved strongly over the last 20 years. Sueing them now might just stifle those developments and whip up a ridiculous amount of hostile nationalism.
The charges of actual genocide simply cannot be maintained. “Cultural” genocide, perhaps, but that is hardly as evil as the term “genocide” suggests. Even this campaign of cultural genocide probably isn’t directed from high up, but a result of economic considerations, local political influences and nationalism (and possibly other factors as well).
Singhdee,
Evolution: Change in the leadership.
You may have recognized yourself that most of your sentence are consistent in using past tense. Everything happened in past. Lets go beyond past and think of present & for near future.
What makes you think Spanish are still “pro-Hitler” & “fascists”? [Rhetorical question]
Please, be considerate. Don’t “judge” them without any any proof.
To re-clarify [by others as well], this lawsuit is charging the hard-liners of “cultural genocide.” This is very clear to all, but it seems that you don’t know enough about the situation to judge on others.
Best Wishes,
Racheal
Racheal. Since you seem rather convinced about Chinese top politicians actively instigating cultural genocide, I’d like to hear what policy of theirs exactly you believe to be doing that.
Looks like the axis-of-evil-nation club has a new member~Spain. Sad really, for Spain is not really our natural enemy per se like US, UK, France, Germany, Australia, Canada (the allied 6 which looted & burnt our Imperial Palace during the Ching Dynasty). In fact, there are many comtemporary Spanish characters like Juan Antonio Samarach etc who are great friends of China & Chinese. This lawsuit is mere media stunt/circus designed to generate ill-will towards China/Chinese. We therefore dare them to bring their subsequent indictments (if any at all) to the UN Security Council to seek legal sanction (otherwise they shall not have cross-border jurisdiction) & see how the rest of the world would throw this piece of junk into the political trash bin in the most humiliating manner.
(1) Stop fostering hatred for events that happened centuries ago. The French, Belgians, Dutch and many other European peoples don’t blame the Germans and Austrians for Hitler’s invasion or the Shoah, Belgians don’t blame the Spanish for the Blood Council anymore, the French don’t blame the English for deposing their Emperor Napoleon, and the Turks aren’t hostile towards the Europeans despite countless wars.
So why do you keep bringing up those incidents of the past? Any British citizen that knows of them will tell you the Opium Wars were horrid and injust. And many of them will happily denounce the colonialism their nation applied in the past. Try and realize that fostering hostility towards people who had no involvement in the original situation at all serves no point.
(2) What has happened is that a lawsuit will be -heard-. This doesn’t mean that it will be -won-. In European states, there is a great divergence of thought concerning these matters. Simply because a few people want to take Chinese officials to court doesn’t mean the entire nation wishes to do so. Yet it is among the liberties of a Spanish citizen to do so, and people have made use of that.
I do not see how this makes a nation evil. For one thing, I see such a lawsuit as contrary to the point – it will do no good. What it -will- do is create a diplomatic crisis. And that won’t do anyone good.
(3) Obviously no Chinese citizen is going to be extradited by this. China can veto any attempt at forcing this by the U.N., and Spain itself will probably change its law on universal jurisdiction, seeing the effects of it.
[...] leaders of genocide in connection with the unrest that erupted in the region in March.” ( h/t China Digital Times… Stan Abrams made a passing reference to this as well) Some of the [...]
David,
They are made hard-line policies that are imposed on Tibetans that are aimed at undermining Tibetan culture and religion. I don’t think I have to list and explain all of them for your convinience because I think you should know them already before trying to make any point.
Anyhow, “Patriotic Re-education” campaign, which was introduced in 1996. Because of such policy, which force Tibetans to denounce their spiritual leader, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Tibetans across the Tibetan plateau protested since March 10 of this year, marking the 49th anniversary of failed Uprising of 1959. Instead of listening to the demands of these Tibetans, which was mainly to immediately cease such policy that are forcing them to denounce someone who they are dying to see and praise, the Chinese leaders re-emphasized this campaign and it was made harsher. Now, such campaign is being runned in schools, monastic institutions, and many other.
Why is it so important for Chinese leaders to make this their top priority? Especially after the brutal crackdown on peaceful protesters?
As Ms. Danghong, han Chinese, has rhetorically questioned:
“For anyone who has been to Tibet, it should not be strange to see the “common Tibetan scene”: Is there any Tibetan who does not worship him (the Dalai Lama)? Is there any Tibetan unwilling to hang up his photo in his own shrine? (These photos are smuggled back in from abroad, secretly copied and enlarged, not like those Mao portraits printed by the government that we Han Chinese once had to hang up.) Is there any Tibetan who wants to verbally disrepect the Dalai Lama? Is there a Tibetan who does not want to see him? Is there any Tibetan who does not want to present Hada [white welcoming scarf] to him?”
Chinese leaders, knowing such fact how much His Holiness the Dalai Lama means to Tibetans, reinforce such policy, marking their brutal method to undermine Tibetan culture and religion.
They are many hard-line policies, which are of same purpose of exterminating Tibetan culture and religion.
Best Wishes,
Racheal
Who is this Ms Danhong and why should China care the rambling of this woman I say another time and another era Those monk will be lined up against the wall and shot That is the punishment for people who incite riot and arson They should count their blessing and The least they can do is listening to boring lecture after commiting crime of burning looting and smashing LOL
George,
Look up who Danhong is. By the way, Chinese government is actually rambling about her, really in this era.
This nonsense of “incite riot” does not make credible sense. There is no proof. China accused His Holiness the Dalai Lama of “masterminding” the so called “riot.” His Holiness and Tibetan Exile Government demanded for proof. They said China can come to Dharamsala to look for any proof, go through files and all, but China didn’t respond. They are still making nonsense accusation just like you are. I guess you are following their lead. I don’t blame you for such mentality.
Best Wishes,
Racheal
ps. I haven’t seen you here for awhile. Welcome back :-O)
Racheal, do you think it strange that the Chinese, with their utter focus on the unity of the country, would denounce someone who asks for so much authority to be granted to Tibet that it could have its own foreign and defence policy? This isn’t any anti-Tibetan reply, it’s a reply against a demand for Tibetan independence (in anything but name).
I’ll also remind you that while there was a brutal crackdown, that brutal crackdown was mainly aimed at violent rioters – the peaceful protesters were largely caught in the crossfire. Peaceful protesters in Iraq wouldn’t be tolerated either, with violent bombers on the loose.
And let’s immediately make it clear that I don’t think that the Dalai Lama incited those riots. However, there’s two possibilities. Either the Tibetans are rioting despite his call for not using violence, or he is actually lying about his non-violence. In the first case, China would gain nothing by negotiating with him: the rioters would continue, for the Dalai Lama would have no power over them. In the second case, China would not want to negotiate with him.
DL by his refusal to halt demonstration proof that he is complicit in the riot explicit or not
He should know better that demonstration will go out of control
David,
with regard to your previous posting:
“I’ll also remind you that while there was a brutal crackdown, that brutal crackdown was mainly aimed at violent rioters – the peaceful protesters were largely caught in the crossfire.”
How can you make that statement? Were you in Tibet at the time? Or are you in Tibet now witnessing the ongoing crackdown as reported in different media?
“Peaceful protesters in Iraq wouldn’t be tolerated either, with violent bombers on the loose.”
In fact, NO protests AT ALL have been tolerated in Tibet for decades.
So why do you compare it to Iraq?
“However, there’s two possibilities. Either the Tibetans are rioting despite his call for not using violence, or he is actually lying about his non-violence.”
Now, that is certainly a very simplistic argument.
The Dalai Lama is in fact the most outspoken supporter of a solution within the existing political framework of the PRC. It is the Tibetan youth – and not the youth only – that is fed up with the repressive policies of the Chinese government and wants nothing less than complete independence from the Han.
It is not in the power of the Dalai Lama to deny them their own aspirations nor does he want to do so.
He once said that only upon arrival in exile in India he learnt what real freedom of opinion was. Although the Indian government did not support the Tibetans aspiration for independence, it still provided asylum for thousands – by now more than a hundred thousand – Tibetan refugees.
In India they have been allowed to sustain their language and culture and to rebuild the monasteries that were destroyed in Tibet.
What is this socalled middle of the way He want to include part of Sichuan, Yunnan and Gansu as a part of greater Tibetan when they never exercise sovereignity in those area ever in history .It is akin of saying Singapoer should be part of China because the majority are Han Chinese.
He want a free elected parliament in Tibet. He want to restrict Chinese Immigration to Tibet. Will US ALLOW HAWAII TO BE OFF LIMIT? I called that Independent in all but the name It will never happened NOT until the earth frozen. Come what may
David,
I am assuming you know what His Holiness had proposed during Strasbourg Proposal in 1988. The reason why today’s charasmatic leaders has been urging China to have dialogue with His Holiness or his envoys is because such points in the Proposal is clearly something that is under Chinese Constitution under Regional Autonomy. I think His Holiness and Tibetan Government in exile India had made carely analysis of Chinese constitution. Thus far, I don’t think they are asking for something more or less. After all, its about the small Tibetan population and preservation of its unique culture and religion.
As far as protest ["riot"] is concern, the harsh crackdown didn’t begin until March 14. I have been repeatedly saying this for the past few months that the Chinese government knew that they is going to be protest [in Lhasa mostly] because Tibetans across the world has been doing since the failed Uprising of 1959. It is not something that the Chinese leaders weren’t expecting. However, the protest began in Lhasa on March 10 of this year, where the Chinese PSB & PAP officials starting arresting them for participating in such act. Then, the protest widespread across the Tibetan Plateau, people demanding for the release of those protesters who were detained for no apparent reason. Evidently, confrontation rose between the Chinese officials and Tibetan protesters, which spontaneously turned the protest of March 14 [am] into some sort of “riot” as Xinhua calls it.
On that note, I beleive if His Holiness asked his people in Tibet to stop protesting, I am so sure they would. However, this would not happen because right from the beginning, His Holiness and the Tibetan Government in Exile India is and was fully committed to democracy. As His Holiness has said when he arrived here [US] after the crackdown that he can’t tell his people to “shut up.” He says that he does not have the moral right to do so. Anyhow, I hope you research more on this on your own from all sources rather than CCP’s controlled media. It is still vague that protesters are really “rioting.”
Last thing I wanted to say that it is fine if China do not want to negotiate. However, I feel that it is in their own interest to do so because the Chinese leaders are only dealing with one person on behalf of the rest of Tibetans to negotiate about Tibetan nation. Resentments of younger generation Tibetans will remain no matter what happens to His Holiness. I don’t think China would want to negotiate with those younger Tibetans who are quite extreme in demanding for independence. As one of the hard-core activist say “it takes two to shake hand, but only one to throw a punch.” Granted that Tibetans are Buddhist, but it does not mean that they are not human being. They get hurt, frustrated, and angry just like we all do. Hence, I think it is the interest of both Chinese and Tibetan leaders to negotiate while His Holiness in still alive. Things will get “out of control” and resentment will remain no matter how many are killed or suppressed. No justification of such prediction is needed.
George, His Holiness knew that demonstration would go “out of control.” This is why he warned the Chinese leaders that resentment will remain no matter how badly they treat Tibetans. It was Chinese leaders who thought such protest of March 10 would remain same as every other years in the past. They underestimated the power of truth and determination. Thus far, the Chinese leaders ordered to act without without, which didn’t do any good to them either. The world saw the true face of China.
Another point in your following comment, you talked about all three provinces being part of greater Tibetan is impossible of history. Lets not deny that history from both sides [China & Tibet] is quite complex. Both has its flaws. However, lets go beyond history because we want to try to figure out best possible solution that serves the interest of both side. If we get stuck in arguing about whats in history, trust me, we are not going to get anywhere.
Best Wishes,
Racheal
Point to be noted to all:
in 2004, the Chinese government issued White Paper on the Regional Ethnic Autonomy in Tibet that Tibetans are entitled to the following rights: full political right of autonomy; full decision-making power in economic and social development undertakings; freedom to inherit and develop their traditional culture and to practice their religious belief; and freedom to administer, protect and be the first to use their natural resources, and to independently develop their educational and cultural undertakings.
Best Wishes,
Racheal
Hi all,
“We cannot rewrite history but together we can determine the future.”
- His Holiness the Dalai Lama
Best Wishes,
Racheal