“Erroneous” Western Democracy Not For China, Says Official (Updated with Bloggers’ Reactions)
From Reuters:
China must build defences against “erroneous” ideas involving Western-style democracy, a top government official said in comments published on Sunday, shooting down recent calls by dissidents for political reform.
China’s ruling Communist Party has stepped up efforts to stifle dissent and protest ahead of politically sensitive anniversaries this year, and amid concerns that rising unemployment in a slowing economy could fuel broad social unrest.
Jia Qinglin, China’s fourth-most senior official, demanded officials throw their weight behind the one-party state in an essay in the Party’s main ideological journal “Seeking Truth” (Qiushi), which was reproduced on major web portals on Sunday.
Here are four examples of bloggers’ reaction to Mr. Jia Qinglin’s speech, translated by CDT:
The first one is from a blog called “False Golden Age, Real Poor,” where the blogger wrote sarcastically:
“We are so lucky. It turned out that all other people’s two-party systems, multi-party systems, separation of power, which have worked for several hundred years, are all wrong. They are all on the wrong path. We just started and we’re already on the right path.”
“我们真该庆幸，敢情人家搞两党制、多党制、两院制和三权鼎立，搞了至少二三百年了，却搞错了，走的是错误路线，而我们一抬脚便走的是正确路线！”
The second is from a blog titled “Beijing Times.” The blogger commented on one of the quotes in Jia’s speech.
Jia: “After the extremely hard revolutionary struggle, (the CCP) had a determined victory in overthrowing the dictatorship of the KMT.”
Blogger’s comment: The goal of the struggle then was to overthrow the dictatorship, but what happened after that?
“经过28年艰苦卓绝的革命斗争，取得了推翻国民党独裁统治的决定性胜利。”
—當年的目標是推翻獨裁統治，推翻之后呢？。
Third example, blogger Chiwei wrote:
No matter how powerful guns are, they cannot manipulate, and will be defeated by the people’s will. The better lives people are living, the more they want to be in charge of their own destiny.
枪杆子再强硬，也敌不了主流民意，也裹挟不了人民的意愿。日子过得再好，人民就越强调当家做主。
Update: Netease is one of China’s three major news portals. When a news item is displayed on the Netease, the template also allows readers to write comments after the news article, as well as click on buttons underneath those comments: “support” or “oppose” (the comment).
Here is the fourth example, from a Netease blog called “I Love Freedom – Freedom is Never Free.” The blog post is entitled: “You can block my comment, but can you block me from clicking on the ‘oppose’ button?”, translated by CDT:
I just saw a leader’s article on the multi-party system on one of the three major portals. (I won’t name the portal.) The article said that China must build defences against “erroneous” ideas involving Western-style democracy. This is nothing new.
The portal website did not completely forbid netizens’ comments, so we see the following laughable data:
Total number of comments: 2505
Displayed: 66What are these 66 displayed items? Here are few examples:
From Yulin, Gunagxi: ip：221.7.*.*：
2009-01-18 01:27:00
“Support leadership of the party”
Support [290] Oppose: [4010]From Chaoyang, Beijing: ip：221.223.*.*：
2009-01-18 01:11:34
“Love the Party!”
Support [168], Oppose [3406]From Qianjiang, Hubei: ip：58.53.*.*：
2009-01-18 06:44:02
“China’s rise can only be led by the Chinese Communist Party!”
Support [155], Oppose [3161]From Gunagzhou, Guangdong ip：218.19.*.*：
2009-01-18 06:24:51
“Resolutely implement the Central Committee’s order!”
Support [124], Oppose [2773]From USA ip：130.126.*.*：
2009-01-18 03:52:29
“I Love the Party! Support the speech of Chairman Jia, implement the Central Committee’s order!”
Support [110], Oppose [2873]From Shenzhen, Guangdong: ip：119.136.*.*：
2009-01-18 02:12:5
“We must believe the Party, believe the government.”
Support [102], Oppose [2750]From Chongqing ip：121.68.*.*：
2009-01-18 04:00:55
“Love the Party!”
Support [88], Oppose [2475]From Beijing: 218.247.*.*：
2009-01-18 07:35:2
“Enter the new era.”
Support [85], Oppose [1665]From USA/Canada: 216.125.*.*：
2009-01-18 07:35:35
“Resolutely love the CCP, resolutely support the speech of Chairman Jia, resolutely implement the order of the Central Committee”
Support [67], Oppose [1927]From Sichuan, 118.115.*.*：
2009-01-18 07:50:23
“Hold onto the Leadership of the Party!”
Support [50], Oppose [1357]Let me put it this way, you can read the real public opinion from the ratio of “support” to “oppose” votes. You may not display my comment, but I can still click on the “oppose” button.
Origin: , Reuters
POSTED COMMENTS: 21 Responses
If I were in Jia Qinglin’s shoes, I would also be afraid of democracy.
One more pathetic attempt of the CCP to hold on to their jobs. Seeking truth?? They wouldn’t know what truth looks like if it hit them in the head!! They spend 100% of their time trying to hide the truth. Lets hope and pray that the great Chinese people will stand up once again, on this 20th anniversary of Tiananmen for their human rights.
Now is the time for all people to have their freedom.
All those doom and gloom prophet has been predicting the demise of PRC for decades now. Guess who is teetering on the brink of banruptcy now ? Jia jin ling is right democrazy can only lead to chaos and declining living standard long live China
Why China Works
A look at bright spots in the recession begins with Beijing, where state control is looking smart.
Rana Foroohar
NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Jan 19, 2009
China is the only major economy that is likely to show significant growth this year, because it is the only one that routinely breaks every rule in the economic textbook. There is no truly free market in China, where the state doctors statistics, manipulates the stock markets, fixes prices in key industries, owns many strategic industries outright, and staffs key bank posts with Communist Party members and tells them to whom they should lend, and in what they should invest. In fact, the main reason China is not slowing as fast as the other big five economies is its capacity for what economists ridicule, in normal times, as state meddling: it limited foreign investment in the banking sector and didn’t embrace the exotic financial innovations that are the melting core of the global credit crisis.
Why does China’s brand of command capitalism work? The question has long intrigued economists, who tend to cast the state as hopelessly stupid, the market as naturally brilliant. Now that the United States and Europe are moving toward state control—by nationalizing the banking and car industries, and imposing heavy new regulation on the financial industry—the question has a new urgency. China, the poorest and most chaotic big economy, looks like the one best positioned to navigate what may be the worst global downturn in seven decades.
[...] Bloggers’ reactions to a senior official’s verbal brushback of recent calls for democratic reforms. [China [...]
[...] Bloggers’ reactions to a senior official’s verbal brushback of recent calls for democratic reforms. [China [...]
Using the words of the CCP, China does not need democracy, or democracy does not fit China. But since they consider Taiwan a part of China—as a province—didn’t Taiwan already have democracy?
Isn’t Taiwan’s president elected? Hasn’t Taiwan implemented a multi-party system? Isn’t freedom of the press and speech already existent in Taiwan? Taiwan’s existence signifies that Chinese can have democracy.
Hmm let see what happened since Taiwan become democracy She managed to choose the most corrupt and incompetent demogogue headed by Chen Sui Bian who is now facing corruption charges. He is so incompetent that in order to hang in to power He use race, ethnicity to divide Taiwan society. In all 8 years that he is in power the economy of Taiwan is stagnating, Investment is zero All the Taiwan compny left Taiwan for mainland Graduate have trouble finding a job in Taiwan
Taiwan society is racked by instability that daily demonstration discourage investment Democracy bring nothing but misery to Taiwan Hardly a model for China
Look at Singapore starting about the same time as Taiwan she now has percapita income of $34000 twice the amount of Taiwan. She manage to tranform the industry from high tech to biotech and Green technology. Singapore is one party system and proof to be efficient,responsive,corruption free and stable.Coming from the same blood, culture and language She is The perfect model for China
[...] China Digital Times has collected reactions to the statement of a high ranking official from China who claimed that [...]
@George:
If Singapore is the perfect model for China, perhaps China should first become a colony of Great Britain.
As for corruption in Taiwan…
Corruption is everywhere — in both democracies and non-democracies. The question is, how does it get rooted out. Only in a democracy, where there is freedom of speech and the press, can corruption be exposed. This is EXACTLY why China’s leaders fear democracy more than anything.
Why does Jia Qinglin hate democracy? Because dictators are often executed during the transition.
George, you cannot win this argument based on faulty logic provided to you by your Mainland China education.
@Realist
your are 100% right, when you say, “This is EXACTLY why China’s leaders FEAR democracy more than anything” because the CCP is afraid of being exposed as the criminals there are!
More Proof here:
The ruling Communist Party’s parliament in eastern Jiangsu province approved a law making it illegal for people in the city of Xuzhou to publish any information about government officials!
Which they just establishes how evil and corrupt these criminals really are by going against the people’s constitution, in which the right to inform about illegal behavior is a right that belongs to every citizen, a right accorded by the Chinese Constitution.
Who thinks creating special laws that favor corrupt criminals serving as the people’s servants in government positions to be rewarded?
This proves how democracy is needed in China, to expose these corrupt criminals once and for all!
Hiding behind illegal laws, forbidding the rights of every Chinese citizen, while harming the social order of the People’s Republic of China, is NO way to blame Taiwan George!
Deal with your own corrupt officals first, before blaming everyone else but yourself!
This is old CCP tactic, blame everyone else, to relieve pressure about yourself.
The Communist Party in China is the cancer from within China, that pollutes the country, with it’s corruption!
Corruption is everywhere — in both democracies and non-democracies. The question is, how does it get rooted out. Only in a democracy, where there is freedom of speech and the press, can corruption be exposed.
Really where is the much touted “free press” during the financial meltdown Do they exposed the corruption at wall street No of course not And Do they prevent the unjust Iraq war No of course not And where is their conscience during human tragedy in palestine I haven’t heard a squeek here. No it is you who believe the fallacy and propaganda of “Free press” somehow can prevent corruption in high place Again and again the “free press” and democratic institution proof to be sleeping on their job and just incompetent as the commie
If US with 200 years of democracy tradition has failed to prevent corruption and collusion at high place make you wondered where would China be with no tradition of democracy. BIG CHAOS FOR SURE And that exactly what the west want. Prevent the rise of competition!
The ruling Communist Party’s parliament in eastern Jiangsu province approved a law making it illegal for people in the city of Xuzhou to publish any information about government officials!
Using isolated case to make a point is nothing but low blow and cheap shot Corruption do happened in China and is wrong but which country that undergoing social and economical upheavel doesn’t In fact China is ahead of democratic India in corruption index here see it for yourself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
With percapita incoem of $2500/year and developed economy China is ahead in eradicating corruption People got executed for malfeance and derelection of duty And last year 5000 official got fired and punished for corruption But wil it eliminate corruption NO it won’t But what incredulous is corruption still happened in paradise of democracy Recently senator Ted Stevens of Alaska was convicted for corruption With income of $500,000 that is really wrong!
need more example Governor Bagovich of Illinois was found to peddle position in state goverment
So your prescription of democracy to eradicate corruption is nothing but bull and barking at the wrong tree!
@George
Please read my previous post again. I never said that these freedoms PREVENT corruption, only that they EXPOSE it.
There is a big difference.
My friend, if you only understood what is going on outside your country, you would realize that America thrives on competition.
Democracy isn’t a tool to keep China down. It is a way to help China achieve her full potential.
That’s assuming free press actually can exist. Even in the US, where we are so proud of our freedoms, the minority voices still get shut out by the big guys.
If we want to talk about exposing corruption in Taiwan, how many people in the US actually know about the corruption in Taiwan’s government? Similarly, how many people know about the atrocities done by the S. Korean government in the past? Considering how cozy the US had been with the S. Korean regime, I’d guess not much.
The US may stand for freedoms, but whether they actually do in reality is another story.
I’m for democracy in China, but it’s counterproductive to see China and the US in black-and-white.
[...] the line somewhat and denounced the process, calling on China to build defenses against the “erroneous” ideas of Western democracy (Chinese television was wary enough of these erroneous ideas to [...]
It’s obviously counterproductive to hold the U.S. and China up as two extremes. A better approach is to compare characteristics across countries, seeing what works in fighting corruption, etc., in different settings.
The U.S. has a mixed record in terms of clean governance, both in terms of its government and state sector. But where the U.S. HAS succeeded in exposing problems, this has often–but not always–happened because of the efforts of the press. The same can be said for China, in many instances, especially if we consider the country’s unruly internet as a sort of de facto “press” (or if we follow the reporting of Nanfang Dushi Bao and other papers).
What has also worked in the U.S.–and in places like Hong Kong–is independent oversight bodies. These institutions are more or less lacking in China, which has made fighting corruption extremely difficult. You can only send so many investigation teams from the central government down to the provinces; you also need a system mirroring every level of government but separate from its influence.
Similarly, a lack of rules about credit rating agencies and lax oversight of credit default swaps and hedge funds have backfired in America recently. There are methods and systems, in other words, that succeed or fail more or less the same, with some tweaking, anywhere in the world.
Criticisms of Chen Shuibian in relation to Taiwanese democracy seems off base. Yes, a democratic government can have bad leaders (like Mr. Chen or Mr. Bush), but so can an authoritarian government. Chen Liangyu anyone? The question is how well governments self-correct.
A general problem I have with commentators like George_0234, George_01, and George_02 (are they all the same person?) is that they view every argument about China as some sort of contest between China and a hostile world. Arguments, in this context, are not arguments about concrete issues—how to reduce corruption, how to deal with the fate of Tibet, how to provide for workers—but a series of struggles over China’s image and whether China is better or worse than the “West.”
I could care less whether America or China is cleaner human rights-wise or corruption wise. That’s hardly the point. The question is: How do we improve human rights anywhere? How do we effectively fight corruption?
@George
But Singapore is already a province of China, at least it is behaving like one. look at Lee Kuan Yew and Kishore Mahbhubani doing Beijing’s bidding around the world. Moreover, Singapore is modelled on the totalitarian/authoritarian China So it can’t be a model for China!
Yes yes yes! No democracy!
What has also worked in the U.S.–and in places like Hong Kong–is independent oversight bodies. These institutions are more or less lacking in China
Really “independent self oversight bodies” eh ?
It is not because lack of CDS credit rating But because of easy money policy drive by Greenspan to create the illusion of prosperity after the DOT COM bust. Lack of understanding of congress in allowing those bad loan to be securitized and sold to public
The present financial meltdown is no less heinous than commie beating up couple of Tibetan insurgent
Hard working and honest people were robbed of their saving and investment.While the fat cat collecting their exorbitant bonus PAID FOR BY THE TAX PAYER. Young family were forced to vacate their home and their dream bite the dust
And you say no worry trust the democracy and free press ? Really if anything wrong ideology contribute to present malaise and the press caught napping
Here the Genesis of financial meltdown
Here what Asian Times said
The securitization and CDS markets are the financial crisis’ current focal point. The markets’ misperception of liquid and continuous markets – that was instrumental in fueling the explosion of debt issuance and credit insurance – has come home to roost in a very bad way.
The securitization market’s basic premise was that the creditworthiness of trillions of credit instruments would be supported by the capacity of borrowers to forever refinance and/or increase debt loads (Minskian “Ponzi Finance”). The basic premise of the CDS market was twofold: One, that contemporary securitization markets (backstopped by Washington) would provide borrowers endless quantities of inexpensive finance. And, second, that liquid securities markets would provide an effective means of (“dynamically”) hedging credit exposures sold into the (“wild west”) CDS marketplace.
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