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	<title>Comments on: Tibetan Monk Shot By Chinese Police After Setting Himself on Fire</title>
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	<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/</link>
	<description>Watching China Politics from Cyberspace</description>
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		<title>By: Old Tales Retold</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8291</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Tales Retold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 05:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, which lie are you referring to?  A difference of opinion is one thing (e.g. Tibet should or shouldn&#039;t be independent) but lying is another ball game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, which lie are you referring to?  A difference of opinion is one thing (e.g. Tibet should or shouldn&#8217;t be independent) but lying is another ball game.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sr</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8285</link>
		<dc:creator>sr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 23:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[btw, what lie do you say Woesser is spreading? Please do tell...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw, what lie do you say Woesser is spreading? Please do tell&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sr</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8284</link>
		<dc:creator>sr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 23:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John, you bring up an interesting case. Though there is no doubt that she is an enigma. Which means that she is a very rare case of any freedom at all for a Tibetan. Though of course if you know anything about her, as I&#039;m sure you do, she is half Chinese. Then if you know more you will find out that her father was chinese and happened to be a very high ranking PLA officer in Tibet. So she obviously is given leeway for some reason...Not to mention she does NOT live in Tibet!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, you bring up an interesting case. Though there is no doubt that she is an enigma. Which means that she is a very rare case of any freedom at all for a Tibetan. Though of course if you know anything about her, as I&#8217;m sure you do, she is half Chinese. Then if you know more you will find out that her father was chinese and happened to be a very high ranking PLA officer in Tibet. So she obviously is given leeway for some reason&#8230;Not to mention she does NOT live in Tibet!</p>
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		<title>By: John_01</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8281</link>
		<dc:creator>John_01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But in Tibet you basically don’t have domestic investigative journalism. There is nothing vaguely analogous to the “Southern Metropolis Daily” in Lhasa–or even anything like the rowdy right-wing Global Times. Why? Because Tibet is essentially run like an occupation–regardless of what you think of China’s right to be there, this much must be admitted

But it doesn&#039;t prevent &quot;the mouth that bite the hand that feed her&quot; Woesser from going to Tibet and do her &quot;investigation&quot; until she start take photos which is forbidden in China 

Last time I check she is still free to spread her lie and even give interview to foreign correspondent]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But in Tibet you basically don’t have domestic investigative journalism. There is nothing vaguely analogous to the “Southern Metropolis Daily” in Lhasa–or even anything like the rowdy right-wing Global Times. Why? Because Tibet is essentially run like an occupation–regardless of what you think of China’s right to be there, this much must be admitted</p>
<p>But it doesn&#8217;t prevent &#8220;the mouth that bite the hand that feed her&#8221; Woesser from going to Tibet and do her &#8220;investigation&#8221; until she start take photos which is forbidden in China </p>
<p>Last time I check she is still free to spread her lie and even give interview to foreign correspondent</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sr</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8276</link>
		<dc:creator>sr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your right John, if any of my relatives were to talk to him they would have to physically go there and talk to him in person in order to really find out how he is doing.
OTR, haha...just as your scenario suggests, all phone lines both landline and cell phone conversations are tapped and monitored by a very complex multi-lingual key word filters. Tibetans know that the only form of conversations can be held by secure cell phones, written or word of mouth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your right John, if any of my relatives were to talk to him they would have to physically go there and talk to him in person in order to really find out how he is doing.<br />
OTR, haha&#8230;just as your scenario suggests, all phone lines both landline and cell phone conversations are tapped and monitored by a very complex multi-lingual key word filters. Tibetans know that the only form of conversations can be held by secure cell phones, written or word of mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Tales Retold</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8275</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Tales Retold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would be an interesting phone conversation:

Caller: &quot;Hello, may I speak to Mekar?&quot;
Response: [Crackle, beep, beep...click]

I think there&#039;s a very different dynamic at work in Tibet than in other places under Beijing&#039;s rule.  Unless a story really crosses a line into sensitivity elsewhere (such as in the case of the Dongzhou or Taishi Village incidents), you can usually follow up on it.  And the Chinese practice of sending reporters to other provinces (away from where their papers are based) to carry out investigative journalism is still very much alive, despite new regulations.  

But in Tibet you basically don&#039;t have domestic investigative journalism.  There is nothing vaguely analogous to the &quot;Southern Metropolis Daily&quot; in Lhasa--or even anything like the rowdy right-wing Global Times.  Why?  Because Tibet is essentially run like an occupation--regardless of what you think of China&#039;s right to be there, this much must be admitted. 

So, things can be made up.  The same happens in occupations around the world.  Ever hear of Jessica Lynch? Her story was basically created out of thin air by the Pentagon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be an interesting phone conversation:</p>
<p>Caller: &#8220;Hello, may I speak to Mekar?&#8221;<br />
Response: [Crackle, beep, beep...click]</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a very different dynamic at work in Tibet than in other places under Beijing&#8217;s rule.  Unless a story really crosses a line into sensitivity elsewhere (such as in the case of the Dongzhou or Taishi Village incidents), you can usually follow up on it.  And the Chinese practice of sending reporters to other provinces (away from where their papers are based) to carry out investigative journalism is still very much alive, despite new regulations.  </p>
<p>But in Tibet you basically don&#8217;t have domestic investigative journalism.  There is nothing vaguely analogous to the &#8220;Southern Metropolis Daily&#8221; in Lhasa&#8211;or even anything like the rowdy right-wing Global Times.  Why?  Because Tibet is essentially run like an occupation&#8211;regardless of what you think of China&#8217;s right to be there, this much must be admitted. </p>
<p>So, things can be made up.  The same happens in occupations around the world.  Ever hear of Jessica Lynch? Her story was basically created out of thin air by the Pentagon.</p>
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		<title>By: John_01</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8274</link>
		<dc:creator>John_01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Better still your relative can visit him

Therefore, Tashi, along with his mother and three doctors and nurses, was transferred Thursday to the West China Hospital under the Sichuan University in the provincial capital of Chengdu, one of the best hospitals in Sichuan.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better still your relative can visit him</p>
<p>Therefore, Tashi, along with his mother and three doctors and nurses, was transferred Thursday to the West China Hospital under the Sichuan University in the provincial capital of Chengdu, one of the best hospitals in Sichuan.</p>
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		<title>By: sr</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8273</link>
		<dc:creator>sr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John....come on. Inject some common sense in to the tactical situation that is going on in Tibet Proper. Once you do this I will not have to state the obvious...time and time again 1.6 billion times over.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/new-year-03052009135920.html

http://www.rfa.org/english/multimedia/SlideshowChineseForcesSwarmTibet-03032009165833.html

Tibet Proper is CLOSED to all foreigners and journalists. Look at just a few of the many pictures available that show hundreds of Chinese armed guards, SS, Police, etc all over Kham and Amdo. The PRC knows the obvious. NO Tibetan wants to be governed by the Chinese, or by any acting Tibetan Chinese-puppet. Dont get it complicated with all the tactical complexities that CCTV, China Daily, Xinhua tries to throw in the pot. It&#039;s very simple..Tibetans just want to live as Tibetans (Period). And since the PRC colonialists will not allow this basic human right...then YES, Tibetans will want Independence or at least a true Autonomy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John&#8230;.come on. Inject some common sense in to the tactical situation that is going on in Tibet Proper. Once you do this I will not have to state the obvious&#8230;time and time again 1.6 billion times over.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/new-year-03052009135920.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/new-year-03052009135920.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.rfa.org/english/multimedia/SlideshowChineseForcesSwarmTibet-03032009165833.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rfa.org/english/multimedia/SlideshowChineseForcesSwarmTibet-03032009165833.html</a></p>
<p>Tibet Proper is CLOSED to all foreigners and journalists. Look at just a few of the many pictures available that show hundreds of Chinese armed guards, SS, Police, etc all over Kham and Amdo. The PRC knows the obvious. NO Tibetan wants to be governed by the Chinese, or by any acting Tibetan Chinese-puppet. Dont get it complicated with all the tactical complexities that CCTV, China Daily, Xinhua tries to throw in the pot. It&#8217;s very simple..Tibetans just want to live as Tibetans (Period). And since the PRC colonialists will not allow this basic human right&#8230;then YES, Tibetans will want Independence or at least a true Autonomy.</p>
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		<title>By: John_01</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8272</link>
		<dc:creator>John_01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AFP as usual cut and add irrelevant comments to insinuate doubt into the readers
 
The report itself give enough details like his mother name. Hell if you have relative in Tibet maybe you can confirm it by telephone look for Mekar

&quot;From the bottom of my heart, I very much appreciate the doctors, nurses and the government officials in Aba,&quot; Tashi&#039;s mother, 44-year-old Mekar, told Xinhua Thursday.&quot;
http://www.china.org.cn/china/news/2009-03/05/content_17384798.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AFP as usual cut and add irrelevant comments to insinuate doubt into the readers</p>
<p>The report itself give enough details like his mother name. Hell if you have relative in Tibet maybe you can confirm it by telephone look for Mekar</p>
<p>&#8220;From the bottom of my heart, I very much appreciate the doctors, nurses and the government officials in Aba,&#8221; Tashi&#8217;s mother, 44-year-old Mekar, told Xinhua Thursday.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.china.org.cn/china/news/2009-03/05/content_17384798.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.china.org.cn/china/news/2009-03/05/content_17384798.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: sr</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8269</link>
		<dc:creator>sr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh John, I could have told you as soon as this story came out that in a few days or so the CCTV or Xinhua was going to do a cover up story! We just had to give the security forces enough time to kidnap a couple of monks torture, beat and intimidate them until they make up something to cover-up what happened. Then these forces usher in Xinhua to make it a &quot;story&quot;. The news.yahoo article is very keen and makes sure to mention that not only is Xinhua a government run news agency but they also mention how the whole of Tibet Proper is completely shut off from foreigners and journalists. Just so Xinhua has the chance to take their time and do cover-up work before too much of the actual real story comes out. They knew things like this were going to happen. When in regards to Tibet or Tibetans, Xinhua is a Joke!!! Give me a break.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh John, I could have told you as soon as this story came out that in a few days or so the CCTV or Xinhua was going to do a cover up story! We just had to give the security forces enough time to kidnap a couple of monks torture, beat and intimidate them until they make up something to cover-up what happened. Then these forces usher in Xinhua to make it a &#8220;story&#8221;. The news.yahoo article is very keen and makes sure to mention that not only is Xinhua a government run news agency but they also mention how the whole of Tibet Proper is completely shut off from foreigners and journalists. Just so Xinhua has the chance to take their time and do cover-up work before too much of the actual real story comes out. They knew things like this were going to happen. When in regards to Tibet or Tibetans, Xinhua is a Joke!!! Give me a break.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Tales Retold</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8267</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Tales Retold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, it&#039;s always hard to sort out the details in these cases.  Do you believe Xinhua?  Do you believe what residents said to AFP?  Mostly, readers are left to rely on their own instincts.

Xinhua (and the state media generally) have made it a policy to be much more prompt about reporting &quot;sensitive&quot; stories and to report them in more detail.  But this change has mainly been driven by a desire to control the way stories develop, as I understand it.  

It is worth noting that Xinhua wouldn&#039;t have responded at all to this incident if it wasn&#039;t first reported elsewhere.  And Xinhua rarely &quot;discovers&quot; that a situation is worse than than it was initially reported---they tend to try to balance things out, make a tragedy seem mundane, insinuate foreign interference, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s always hard to sort out the details in these cases.  Do you believe Xinhua?  Do you believe what residents said to AFP?  Mostly, readers are left to rely on their own instincts.</p>
<p>Xinhua (and the state media generally) have made it a policy to be much more prompt about reporting &#8220;sensitive&#8221; stories and to report them in more detail.  But this change has mainly been driven by a desire to control the way stories develop, as I understand it.  </p>
<p>It is worth noting that Xinhua wouldn&#8217;t have responded at all to this incident if it wasn&#8217;t first reported elsewhere.  And Xinhua rarely &#8220;discovers&#8221; that a situation is worse than than it was initially reported&#8212;they tend to try to balance things out, make a tragedy seem mundane, insinuate foreign interference, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: John_01</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8266</link>
		<dc:creator>John_01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 18:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Before you start huffing and puffing It turn out the purported shooting is nothing but a lie another black eye for Tibetan activist

Activist groups reported police shot the monk when he protested in the flashpoint area of Aba in southwest China&#039;s Sichuan province last week, and residents there contacted by AFP confirmed that they had heard guns fired.

But the Xinhua news agency issued a report on Thursday saying another monk had confessed to making up allegations about the police shooting, and cited residents saying they heard no firing.

&quot;Jangkor, a monk at the Kirti Monastery in Aba County... said that he lied to &#039;create greater disturbances so as to attract attention from overseas&#039;,&quot; Xinhua said, citing local police.

It also said the monk who tried to set himself alight, 24-year-old Tashi, had no bullet wounds and was recovering at a hospital in the provincial capital Chengdu.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090306/wl_afp/chinaunresttibetrightspolice_20090306081859]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before you start huffing and puffing It turn out the purported shooting is nothing but a lie another black eye for Tibetan activist</p>
<p>Activist groups reported police shot the monk when he protested in the flashpoint area of Aba in southwest China&#8217;s Sichuan province last week, and residents there contacted by AFP confirmed that they had heard guns fired.</p>
<p>But the Xinhua news agency issued a report on Thursday saying another monk had confessed to making up allegations about the police shooting, and cited residents saying they heard no firing.</p>
<p>&#8220;Jangkor, a monk at the Kirti Monastery in Aba County&#8230; said that he lied to &#8216;create greater disturbances so as to attract attention from overseas&#8217;,&#8221; Xinhua said, citing local police.</p>
<p>It also said the monk who tried to set himself alight, 24-year-old Tashi, had no bullet wounds and was recovering at a hospital in the provincial capital Chengdu.<br />
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090306/wl_afp/chinaunresttibetrightspolice_20090306081859" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090306/wl_afp/chinaunresttibetrightspolice_20090306081859</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sr</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8213</link>
		<dc:creator>sr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see that your very sneaky George. Why did you insert your own little nonsense into the Shimatsu quote? &quot;Since the fifth Dalai Lama allied himself in the 18th century with a Mongol general and the Manchu emperor in Beijing, Tibet has been an ethnic checkerboard&quot; --Try to be more careful when inserting your own version of the facts into someone elses article. I can&#039;t really speak for the high desert lands of Northern Amdo but I&#039;m very confident that Kham and most regions in Amdo were not a &#039;checkerboard&#039; as you say. And I guarantee you their were no settlements of Han anywhere in Amdo and Kham before 1950! Anyway, this is a bit off topic.

But the article by Shimatsu is a good example of twisted facts and cover-up by the PRC and her puppets. These Tibetans were shouting &quot;Free Tibet&quot; (Bhor Rangzen) as they road their horses to the government buildings and REPLACED THE CHINESE FLAG WITH THE TIBETAN NATIONAL FLAG!!! How could you possibly make a bigger statement!! There is no Tibetan who wants to be under the rule of foreign powers. Come on George it&#039;s obvious. Stop fleecing your eyes. With the additional point of this article: the Tibetan monk shot by Chinese police as he was burning alive!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that your very sneaky George. Why did you insert your own little nonsense into the Shimatsu quote? &#8220;Since the fifth Dalai Lama allied himself in the 18th century with a Mongol general and the Manchu emperor in Beijing, Tibet has been an ethnic checkerboard&#8221; &#8211;Try to be more careful when inserting your own version of the facts into someone elses article. I can&#8217;t really speak for the high desert lands of Northern Amdo but I&#8217;m very confident that Kham and most regions in Amdo were not a &#8216;checkerboard&#8217; as you say. And I guarantee you their were no settlements of Han anywhere in Amdo and Kham before 1950! Anyway, this is a bit off topic.</p>
<p>But the article by Shimatsu is a good example of twisted facts and cover-up by the PRC and her puppets. These Tibetans were shouting &#8220;Free Tibet&#8221; (Bhor Rangzen) as they road their horses to the government buildings and REPLACED THE CHINESE FLAG WITH THE TIBETAN NATIONAL FLAG!!! How could you possibly make a bigger statement!! There is no Tibetan who wants to be under the rule of foreign powers. Come on George it&#8217;s obvious. Stop fleecing your eyes. With the additional point of this article: the Tibetan monk shot by Chinese police as he was burning alive!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Old Tales Retold</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8211</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Tales Retold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, thanks for clarifying things.  That was a lot more coherent.

I still think you are being overly reductive by boiling down India and China&#039;s differences to merely their different political systems, democracy and authoritarianism.  As I said (and you never addressed), the most democratic states in India like Kerala are the best managed and the most developed by many measures--and they were democratic first, developed later.  

So, my hunch is that there are other factors at work.  The fact that India was essentially a bunch of  local fiefdoms with only fitful central rule before the British took over may be one.  The form that British rule took, with its emergency powers for the center and bureaucracy at the local level, may be another factor.  India&#039;s constant diversion of conflicts with Pakistan and Kashmir (India&#039;s Tibet, in a way) are others.  

Perhaps democracy, too, has been a problem for India, but I need more proof than just the fact that India has a parliamentary system and China doesn&#039;t.  India has the Ganges and China doesn&#039;t.  What does it prove?  You have to map out the link.

The Kuznets curve idea is interesting, but it&#039;s not a universal phenomenon.  Taiwan, for example, stayed at more or less the same level of income inequality as it grew.  The same was true for India, incidentally, too.  Mind you, I&#039;m not commenting on how much they grew, but just that as they grew they did not see a Kuznets curve.  Some countries, though, have indeed seen greater inequality accompany growth and then greater equality again after a certain point.  It&#039;s not a hard and fast rule, in other words.

In general, I think you and I just have different philosophies.  You are essentially right wing in outlook: reading stuff from conservative think tanks like AEI, praising military governments and fascists in places like South Korea and Chile, and speaking approvingly of tough measures against the &quot;drecks of society.&quot;  Fine, there&#039;s a long tradition of you guys.  I, on the other hand, am on the left: skeptical of some people getting rich first (and Kuznets), inclined toward social democratic and democratic socialist government&#039;s like Scandinavia&#039;s or Allende&#039;s, and sympathetic to the weak taking tough measures themselves.  I like the drecks of society!  

If we&#039;re basically at ideological loggerheads, there&#039;s not much further this conversation can go.  I was hoping we could get out of the bind by focusing on practical matters in Tibet, but you didn&#039;t take me up on it.  Well, so be it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, thanks for clarifying things.  That was a lot more coherent.</p>
<p>I still think you are being overly reductive by boiling down India and China&#8217;s differences to merely their different political systems, democracy and authoritarianism.  As I said (and you never addressed), the most democratic states in India like Kerala are the best managed and the most developed by many measures&#8211;and they were democratic first, developed later.  </p>
<p>So, my hunch is that there are other factors at work.  The fact that India was essentially a bunch of  local fiefdoms with only fitful central rule before the British took over may be one.  The form that British rule took, with its emergency powers for the center and bureaucracy at the local level, may be another factor.  India&#8217;s constant diversion of conflicts with Pakistan and Kashmir (India&#8217;s Tibet, in a way) are others.  </p>
<p>Perhaps democracy, too, has been a problem for India, but I need more proof than just the fact that India has a parliamentary system and China doesn&#8217;t.  India has the Ganges and China doesn&#8217;t.  What does it prove?  You have to map out the link.</p>
<p>The Kuznets curve idea is interesting, but it&#8217;s not a universal phenomenon.  Taiwan, for example, stayed at more or less the same level of income inequality as it grew.  The same was true for India, incidentally, too.  Mind you, I&#8217;m not commenting on how much they grew, but just that as they grew they did not see a Kuznets curve.  Some countries, though, have indeed seen greater inequality accompany growth and then greater equality again after a certain point.  It&#8217;s not a hard and fast rule, in other words.</p>
<p>In general, I think you and I just have different philosophies.  You are essentially right wing in outlook: reading stuff from conservative think tanks like AEI, praising military governments and fascists in places like South Korea and Chile, and speaking approvingly of tough measures against the &#8220;drecks of society.&#8221;  Fine, there&#8217;s a long tradition of you guys.  I, on the other hand, am on the left: skeptical of some people getting rich first (and Kuznets), inclined toward social democratic and democratic socialist government&#8217;s like Scandinavia&#8217;s or Allende&#8217;s, and sympathetic to the weak taking tough measures themselves.  I like the drecks of society!  </p>
<p>If we&#8217;re basically at ideological loggerheads, there&#8217;s not much further this conversation can go.  I was hoping we could get out of the bind by focusing on practical matters in Tibet, but you didn&#8217;t take me up on it.  Well, so be it.</p>
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		<title>By: George_234</title>
		<link>http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/02/tibetan-monk-shot-by-chinese-police-after-setting-himself-on-fire/#comment-8210</link>
		<dc:creator>George_234</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinadigitaltimes.net/?p=34778#comment-8210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SR sorry I got it wrong His name is Yoichi Shimatsu

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkwtq.q9JsgwA7qNXNyoA?p=+shimatsu+tibet&amp;y=Search&amp;fr=yfp-t-501]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SR sorry I got it wrong His name is Yoichi Shimatsu</p>
<p><a href="http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkwtq.q9JsgwA7qNXNyoA?p=+shimatsu+tibet&#038;y=Search&#038;fr=yfp-t-501" rel="nofollow">http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkwtq.q9JsgwA7qNXNyoA?p=+shimatsu+tibet&#038;y=Search&#038;fr=yfp-t-501</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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